The Dragon King Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 A year is a bit longer than nine months :-)Do you seriously think when Ned rode back up North, months later with an infant child, that people would actually say "Hmmm, something's sketchy, that infant looks 3 months older than he claims"? If people see an infant than things will go unnoticed, and that time difference will matter less and less as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Do you seriously think when Ned rode back up North, months later with an infant child, that people would actually say "Hmmm, something's sketchy, that infant looks 3 months older than he claims"? If people see an infant than things will go unnoticed, and that time difference will matter less and less as time goes on.The timeline issues and inconsistencies created in Ned's character aside, why are you so wedded to this idea, that somehow Jon's life would have been better if Ned claimed that Brandon was the father? He'd still be a 'Snow' and Cat would still be prickly (perhaps less so) about Ned going against tradition and raising -- with all of the privileges -- his bastard nephew among his true-born children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon King Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 The timeline issues and inconsistencies created in Ned's character aside, why are you so wedded to this idea, that somehow Jon's life would have been better if Ned claimed that Brandon was the father? He'd still be a 'Snow' and Cat would still be prickly (perhaps less so) about Ned going against tradition and raising -- with all of the privileges -- his bastard nephew among his true-born children.I don't think Cat would have nearly the same amount of grief if he were Brandon's bastard, and I don't think she'd make his life at Winterfell so unwelcome that he'd decide to join the Night's Watch were getting himself killed would be a high likelihood. Aside from his ultimate fate I think his day to day life would be a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Do you seriously think when Ned rode back up North, months later with an infant child, that people would actually say "Hmmm, something's sketchy, that infant looks 3 months older than he claims"? If people see an infant than things will go unnoticed, and that time difference will matter less and less as time goes on.You haven't been around babies much, right? Three months make a huge difference in development and no-one who has ever had a baby of their own would take a three-month-old for a six-month-old. If Catelyn (and all of womenfolk of Winterfell) thinks that Jon was conceived only after she married Ned and has her own very young Robb for comparison, then Jon had to display the qualities of a child of an age or younger than Robb. Plus, Jon's birth is pinned at around the Sack or within a month since, so kinda moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 So Ned told everyone that Jon Snow was his bastard, which certainly complicates his life and makes things worse for Jon. Why just say he was Brandon's bastard? Everyone would believe it cause Brandon was known for being both a lover and a fighter, and Cat wouldn't despise him existence.That is a very good question which leads me to the assumption that Ned is the father of Jon (and Lyanna is not his mother). Because- if Jon were Lyanna's son, why shouldn't Howland Reed raise him? He was on good terms with Lyanna and hasn't left Greywater Watch after the ToJ, so it is the ideal place to hide a baby boy who might look suspiciosly Targaryen when growing up?- Ned could have 'blamed' one of his five friends / bannermen who died at the ToJ to be the father of Jon. That wouldn't have been nice, but maybe one of them was single or rumored to not being a saint, and it was a war. A better place to hide a half Targaryen then Winterfell. - Ned must have been very, very sure that Jon would not develop Targaryen features to raise him at Winterfell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 That is a very good question which leads me to the assumption that Ned is the father of Jon (and Lyanna is not his mother). Because- if Jon were Lyanna's son, why shouldn't Howland Reed raise him? He was on good terms with Lyanna and hasn't left Greywater Watch after the ToJ, so it is the ideal place to hide a baby boy who might look suspiciosly Targaryen when growing up?- Ned could have 'blamed' one of his five friends / bannermen who died at the ToJ to be the father of Jon. That wouldn't have been nice, but maybe one of them was single or rumored to not being a saint, and it was a war. A better place to hide a half Targaryen then Winterfell.- Ned must have been very, very sure that Jon would not develop Targaryen features to raise him at WinterfellI think the answer has been provided up the thread, several times. It's absolutely dishonourable to "frame" someone else with what was Ned's burden and responsibility. Plus, if Lyanna asked him personally to take care of Jon, he would do it himself and not shift it on another even if he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Pinning it on his dead brother would probably be in too sour taste for good old Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I don't think Cat would have nearly the same amount of grief if he were Brandon's bastard, and I don't think she'd make his life at Winterfell so unwelcome that he'd decide to join the Night's Watch were getting himself killed would be a high likelihood. Aside from his ultimate fate I think his day to day life would be a lot better.Jon didn't join the NW to "escape" Catelyn, but to gain notoriety and worth through merit as opposed to birth status, something which being Brandon's bastard would not negate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Cumbrian Wildling Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 If Ned told everyone Jon was Brandon's son, Jon would be the rightful heir to Winterfell, Ned would lose his claim as would his newly born son Rob, saying he was his own bastard avoided this massive complication, fuck what the wife thinks.Just like the old saying goes "castle and heir before hoes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 About the age thing: it's not like Brandon couldn't have grown a six feet long dong, like good old Ossifer Plumm when he impregnated his Targaryen princess. It seemed to be a transparent farce, yet still be totally accepted.About Catelyn, it would probably change the dynamics in the family, but either way it would make Jon more of a threat to her children's legitimacy, so it would probably not change that much. Less pent-up frustration for Cat over not being told the truth, knowing her husband cheated on her and shamed her daily with the reminder, maybe, if she believed in the impregnation from the grave thing... more pent-up anger if she didn't believe in it, though.If Ned told everyone Jon was Brandon's son, Jon would be the rightful heir to WinterfellNot really, he would need to be a legitimate son for that. Gendry is not the Baratheon heir even though he is older than Joff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 No it would be not good either. Maybe worser. Then Jon has right to rule winterfell as Stark, it is a threat for Cats kids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 About the age thing: it's not like Brandon couldn't have grown a six feet long dong, like good old Ossifer Plumm when he impregnated his Targaryen princess. It seemed to be a transparent farce, yet still be totally accepted.So there is a magical prick theory too? Makes sense considering that ASOIAF males produce sperm that is able to warp the space-time continuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Cumbrian Wildling Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 About the age thing: it's not like Brandon couldn't have grown a six feet long dong, like good old Ossifer Plumm when he impregnated his Targaryen princess. It seemed to be a transparent farce, yet still be totally accepted.About Catelyn, it would probably change the dynamics in the family, but either way it would make Jon more of a threat to her children's legitimacy, so it would probably not change that much. Less pent-up frustration for Cat over not being told the truth, knowing her husband cheated on her and shamed her daily with the reminder, maybe, if she believed in the impregnation from the grave thing... more pent-up anger if she didn't believe in it, though.Not really, he would need to be a legitimate son for that. Gendry is not the Baratheon heir even though he is older than Joff.If gendry was king bob's big bros bastard he would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 So there is a magical prick theory too? Makes sense considering that ASOIAF males produce sperm that is able to warp the space-time continuum.No, it's an in-story tale. Six feet long is related, to, you know, being six feet under.If gendry was king bob's big bros bastard he would beNo he wouldn't. As a matter of fact, Gendry is Bob's bastard, yet Stannis is still his heir, then it is Shireen. Works with Edric Storm too: he's not the heir either. even Ned agreed on that, even though he knew of the bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 No, it's an in-story tale. Six feet long is related, to, you know, being six feet under.Yea I know, I was just being silly and a little flippant irt the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Cumbrian Wildling Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Errant Bard you are wrong... I thinkBrandon was the oldest brother and rightful heir to Winterfell, he had no legitamite children so the next in line was his bastard. Maybe Ned could make an argument to say he was the heir but it would leave a big question mark over him and his son. Proclaim he is your own son problem solved, apart from a moody wifePlease explain how this can be wrong?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Errant Bard you are wrong... I thinkBrandon was the oldest brother and rightful heir to Winterfell, he had no legitamite children so the next in line was his bastard.Maybe Ned could make an argument to say he was the heir but it would leave a big question mark over him and his son.Proclaim he is your own son problem solved, apart from a moody wifePlease explain how this can be wrong??Bastards no not inherit as long as there are legit heirs. Ned was Brandon's heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Cumbrian Wildling Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 No, it's an in-story tale. Six feet long is related, to, you know, being six feet under.No he wouldn't. As a matter of fact, Gendry is Bob's bastard, yet Stannis is still his heir, then it is Shireen. Works with Edric Storm too: he's not the heir either. even Ned agreed on that, even though he knew of the bastards.Why did Ned look for him then?Even if he is not the heir he complicates things, that's why the lannisters wanted them dead.And that is why Jon couldn't be portrayed as Brandon's son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Why did Ned look for him then?Even if he is not the heir he complicates things, that's why the lannisters wanted them dead.And that is why Jon couldn't be portrayed as Brandon's sonYou mean, why did Ned look for Gendry? Because he was investigating Jon Arryn's eath and Jon Arryn went to see Gendry, so Ned did, as well - and, of course, Jon Arryn went to take a look at Gendry because he suspected twincest and that Joffrey is not Robert's.And Lannisters (or rather, Cersei) want Gendry dead because he is a carbon copy of Robert and a proof of Cersei's infidelity.Sorry that I ask, but have you read the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 What would be the point? Jon would still be a threat to Cat's kids, even a bit more so, she would still feel someone cheated on her. This solves nothing.And it would be quite tricky to pass a baby visibly older than the required for Brandon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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