Would Jon Go to Extraordinary Lengths to Save Sansa

[Ice Turtle]

Sansa is "even Sansa" for Jon. So they didn't hate each other, but their relationship was rather distant. For most of Stark siblings Jon was brother and that was more important, for Sansa it was more important that he was a bastard

Small note about often used argument that Sansa loves Jon because she prayed for him before Blackwater battle, the whole quote is:

She sang for mercy, for the living and the dead alike, for Bran and Rickon and Robb, for her sister Arya and her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall. She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, for old drunken King Robert, for Septa Mordane and Ser Dontos and Jory Cassel and Maester Luwin, for all the brave knights and soldiers who would die today, and for the children and the wives who would mourn them, and finally, toward the end, she even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound.

Using this logic Sansa also had a loving relationship with Tyrion.

I actually find it rather surprising that Jon didn't think about Sansa when he was decided about Winterfell. He thought about the godswood we would have to burn. Later he uses Sansa as an excuse for Stannis, but it's probably because Stannis is so rigid about law so it's simply the best argument for the situation.

To answer OP, yes I think he would try to save Sansa too,but he would be less emotional about it than when it came to Arya,

[The Wolves]

He would go above and beyond for Sansa

[genegirl]

YES. Sansa is a STARK. Jon would do his best to save her.

[Nausicaä]

Sansa is "even Sansa" for Jon. So they didn't hate each other, but their relationship was rather distant. For most of Stark siblings Jon was brother and that was more important, for Sansa it was more important that he was a bastard

Small note about often used argument that Sansa loves Jon because she prayed for him before Blackwater battle, the whole quote is:

She sang for mercy, for the living and the dead alike, for Bran and Rickon and Robb, for her sister Arya and her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall. She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, for old drunken King Robert, for Septa Mordane and Ser Dontos and Jory Cassel and Maester Luwin, for all the brave knights and soldiers who would die today, and for the children and the wives who would mourn them, and finally, toward the end, she even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound.

Using this logic Sansa also had a loving relationship with Tyrion.

Nice strawman. No one has said that Sansa loved Jon because she prayed for him, what was said that Sansa loves Jon because he is her brother and that he isn't completely omitted from her POV, but mentioned several times among her siblings and not in any kind of a negative context. They had a pre-existing loving relationship, which is why he is mentioned among the first people she prayed for, firmly among her family and before people like Winterfell's servants. You can't compare it with Sansa's relationship with "even Tyrion the Imp" because Tyrion was one of her captors, albeit not one deserving of death in her mind. That he is included there at all shows that Sansa doesn't think of him the same as Joffrey. Other names and people on that list have a completely different meaning for Sansa, so let's not intentionally misread the text.

You are also picking and choosing when calling Sansa "even Sansa" for Jon. She could as easily be "radiant Sansa" or "Sansa who once told him to call a lady's name pretty", "Sansa whose eyes would fill with tears at the magic beyond the Wall", etc. Jon is not without his biases (see: the Lannister children, Catelyn). But not loving his sister or loving her so much less simply because she cared about propriety would require a littleness of character that Jon simply doesn't have.

[Pikachu101]

I can't believe this thread exists!

SANSA IS HIS SISTER PEOPLE!!!

Stop hating on Jon and making him look like a dick! Using quotes proves NOTHING except that he gets on better with Robb and Arya!

[sertravisredbeard]

I'm sure Jon would do all kinds of things to save Sansa from the Bastard of Bolton. I just wish we'd be able to see her reaction to him showing up with an army made up of guys named The Great Walrus, Soren Shieldbreaker and Tormund Giantsbane to save her. Who knows, that might happen anyway, except with his wildling army saving her from Littlefinger.

These hypothetical threads always make me feel weird and nostalgic about the first few chapters of Game of Thrones and the first few episodes of the series where the whole family is together and happy.

[Ice Turtle]

No one has said that Sansa loved Jon because she prayed for him, what was said that Sansa loves Jon because he is her brother and that he isn't completely omitted from her POV, but mentioned several times among her siblings and not in any kind of a negative context. They had a pre-existing loving relationship, which is why he is mentioned among the first people she prayed for, firmly among her family and before people like Winterfell's servants. You can't compare it with Sansa's relationship with "even Tyrion the Imp" because Tyrion was one of her captors, albeit not one deserving of death in her mind.

I never said she felt about Jon same as Joffrey. I said that her prayer included a lot of people not all of them she loved. Jon is listed among her family,because he is her family it's simply a fact It doesn't show much about her feelings for him.

At AGOT Sansa has negative thoughts and comments about Jon.

Other names and people on that list have a completely different meaning for Sansa.

That is only your reading of the text, not a fact.

Sansa is "even" Sansa when Jon thinks that he miss his siblings (AGOT I think). He is actually surprised that he miss Sansa because unlike rest of their siblings they were never close.

[Pikachu101]

I never said she felt about Jon same as Joffrey. I said that her prayer included a lot of people not all of them she loved. Jon is listed among her family,because he is her family it's simply a fact It doesn't show much about her feelings for him.

At AGOT Sansa has negative thoughts and comments about Jon.

That is only your reading of the text, not a fact.

Sansa is "even" Sansa when Jon thinks that he miss his siblings (AGOT I think). He is actually surprised that he miss Sansa because unlike rest of their siblings they were never close.

I'm sorry is this all supposed to prove something?

The only thing your text shows is that:

A) Jon and Sansa weren't close

B ) he favoured Arya and Robb

How does that show that he wouldn't try and save his little sister? <_<

Stop making Jon look like a dick

[Nausicaä]

I never said she felt about Jon same as Joffrey. I said that her prayer included a lot of people not all of them she loved. Jon is listed among her family,because he is her family it's simply a fact It doesn't show much about her feelings for him.

At AGOT Sansa has negative thoughts and comments about Jon.

That is only your reading of the text, not a fact.

Sansa is "even" Sansa when Jon thinks that he miss his siblings (AGOT I think). He is actually surprised that he miss Sansa because unlike rest of their siblings they were never close.

You are contradicting yourself. What you say is my reading of the text - "other names and people on that list have a completely different meaning for Sansa" - and your own words - "her prayer included a lot of people not all of them she loved" - are the same thing. Not all of the people Sansa prayed for are people she loved, which is why no one is saying that she loved Jon based just on that. Which is also why your comparison to Tyrion doesn't work, as he was included for a different reason than Jon.

Sansa didn't include Jon there simply because he is family and she had to name-check all of her family. It's not a cold calculated moment for her, she shows a lot of passion and genuine pity and sympathy in that prayer because she's a compassionate girl. So if it says "she sang for mercy.. for her her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall", I'm going to take it as she prayed for Jon to be safe "away off on the Wall" because she did want him to be safe and not because she felt it was her duty to include him in her prayers since they share some blood.

Like.. we are not talking about the Freys here, we are talking about a close-knit family, children who grew up together. They continue to think about each other warmly even after parting and often without prompting. That is a sign of a previously existing warm relationship, though in my opinion, such signs are not required to say that all of the Starks loved each other. I feel confident in saying that the Stark children loved their uncle Benjen and that Eddard loved his brother even though they almost never mention him. I also feel confident in saying that everyone loved Rickon who is mentioned a lot less than any other child. With Jon and Sansa there's several mentions of each other in their POVs, so it's not nothing.

At AGOT Sansa has negative thoughts and comments about Jon.

I don't remember any. She doesn't think bad of him, even though she does care about the difference in their status. She never intentionally insults his appearance or his character. Calling him her bastard brother or her half-brother is not an insult because that's what he is.

If you mean that moment at the beginning of AGOT where Arya "stands up" for Jon after Sansa "insults" him by saying that he gets jealous, I'm just going to quote user Daphne23 (from here):

I think this particular conversation tells us more about Sansa and Arya's relationship than about Jon and Sansa's. Sansa is clearly annoyed at Arya's repetition of Jon's comment about Joff, and gives what is actually a fairly accurate explanation of Jon's reasons for making that comment, to deny it validity. Arya reacts to Sansa's use of the term 'bastard', even though it's not meant to be pejorative, only descriptive. Sansa then notes that 'bastard' is an accurate way to describe Jon, and I think that her final comment comes across as a dig at Arya, and/or a desire to get in the last word before the septa interrupts them, rather than driven by a desire to belittle Jon. So sisterly squabbling, rather than evidence of a gulf between Jon and Sansa.

Jon does remember that Sansa always called him 'half-brother', but I think there's another clue about that in this conversation; Sansa is 'precise' about the term, which implies that she's interested in things being done the 'correct' way, rather than deliberately using the term to exclude Jon from the family. The use of the term may have upset Jon, and I don't think anybody is arguing that Jon and Sansa were incredibly close, but Jon is extremely sensitive about being a bastard, and I don't think Sansa intended to upset him.

That comment wasn't malicious and it was correct, even though it would have been better if Sansa didn't voice it. Jon does resent the position that is forced on him by the society. He feels entitlement because he was brought up as a lord's son and bitterness because he's not actually entitled to the things that are supposed to go with that upbringing and he can never have what he wants (like Winterfell). And there is an element of jealousy in his dislike of Joffrey and all Lannister children. That dislike was instant, before they had the chance to do anything really wrong. Jon resents that he isn't even allowed to be in their presence and that they (and Joffrey in particular) are carrying on like they are above all and transfers some of that resentment to them, even though they don't make the rules. Sansa may have praised her comment poorly and it did sound patronizing, but Jon does "get jealous because he is a bastard", so she also saw what was going on.

[Steve Moss II]

I think Jon would fight for Sansa has he has Arya. He'd try to do it quietly at first, with plausible deniabilty (as when he sent Mance after fArya) but, if pushed came to shove, he'd do it publically (as when he betrayed his vows to rouse the Wildlings against Ramsay).

Jon is the spiritual son of the Ned. He'll do his best to keep his oaths but, if necessary, family is more important than his individual honor. In fact, the Starks out Tully the Tullys in that regard.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

I can't believe this thread exists!

SANSA IS HIS SISTER PEOPLE!!!

Stop hating on Jon and making him look like a dick! Using quotes proves NOTHING except that he gets on better with Robb and Arya!

Nobody is hating on Jon and your continuous comments that posters are is annoying.

Of course if Jon understood that Sansa was in a bad situation and he had a way to discretely try to help her (like sending Mance) or if he was given another reason to go to Winterfell, he would. That said I doubt he'd be as emotional about Sansa as he was about Arya, and perhaps there would have been a little more hesitation to do something. I don't doubt that he wouldn't eventually try to help Sansa.

[Nausicaä]

I don't see Jon having any hesitation (ETA: should have said, "any more than there was with Arya"). Jon has many concerns about Arya and among them (besides the obvious) are the fact that she's still only a child and the concern that she would try to fight Ramsay and get killed for it.

"He’s to marry Arya Stark. My little sister." Jon could almost see her in that moment, long-faced and gawky, all knobby knees and sharp elbows, with her dirty face and tangled hair. They would wash the one and comb the other, he did not doubt, but he could not imagine Arya in a wedding gown, nor Ramsay Bolton’s bed. No matter how afraid she is, she will not show it. If he tries to lay a hand on her, she’ll fight him.

...

He’d had Mikken make a sword for Arya once, a bravo’s blade, made small to fit her hand. Needle. He wondered if she still had it. Stick them with the pointy end, he’d told her, but if she tried to stick the Bastard, it could mean her life.

Jon remembers Arya as a fierce little thing, even though he does realize that she wouldn't be able to achieve much by attacking Ramsay and most likely wouldn't make it out of the situation. With Sansa, that's not an added layer of worry and she's a little older. But she's still a little sister to Jon and he remembers her as a girl who tried to be a perfect little lady and so he would know that if she was in "Arya"'s situation, she would be unable to try to defend herself against the physical abuse by lashing back or try to escape without help. I could see that triggering his protective instinct equally hard

[PureGold]

I'm not going to go quote for quote in regards to Jon's thoughts and POV but I do distinctly remember him thinking fondly of Sansa. I also think we'll see Jon and Sansa interact before the series is over, if he survives his latest plot twist and she survives the ones that are doubtlessly coming her way.

Jon thinks about how he'll need to make an appeal to the Vale and Lysa Arryn will not be inclined to help Ned Starks bastard by giving the Nightswatch food. Going to the Vale was in his plans.

Also when Sansa is in Kings Landing I remember while she was attending to Court she see's Janos Slynt and ruminates over how much she hates him and hopes someone cut's HIS head off than she tells herself nobody is going to chop his head off because Heroes don't exist........and lo and behold a few books later Janos Slynt is beheaded by Jon Snow on the edge of the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jon and Arya don't meet again but Jon and Sansa do.

[MM22]

I think Jon would go to extraordinary lengths to rescue or help Sansa.

They are easily the most distanced Stark siblings, but that doesn't suggest at all that there was a real lack of care or bond between them.

In fact, it's arguable that Sansa was something of a black sheep when it comes to assessing the Stark siblings, and though her own thoughts and opinions contribute to that distance, I get the impression it's more because of her position.

There is no doubt that Robb, Bran and Jon all had individual brotherly relationships, and thanks to Arya's non compliance with ladylike behaviour, general badassery, and tomboyish nature, she was almost 'one of the boys' along with them.

Sansa is a different story, just like Robb, the eldest male has been groomed for leadership, Sansa - House Stark's female equivalent has been indoctrinated with ladylike virtues - this would include not taking part in some of her siblings rougher games, not finding it all that funny when a prank is played, and certainly it would remove her from the masculine pursuits that the rest of her siblings enjoy.

It's not a modern view, but it would also involve paying far more respect to Westerosi customs including those surrounding titles, position and bastardy.

I can't prove this with quotes, but given the general closeness of the Starks, especially in comparison to other great houses, I'd be willing to bet that there is no animosity between Jon and Sansa, just a clear divide between the legitimate Stark daughter raised to be a Queen, and the bastard Snow son whose presence causes her mother a great deal of pain.

Sansa is really quite separate from her siblings, both in position and personality - none of the others are going to care about embroidery, songs, gowns, marriage prospects or being a proper maiden but Sansa really has to care about these things, whether or not she might enjoy them, it's her entire purpose.

So, yes - Sansa and Jon are siblings. Jon recognises Sansa as his sister, and the true heir to WInterfell just as Sansa remembers Jon as her 'bastard' brother - the fact that she refers to him as bastard doesn't really suggest she feels nothing for him, she's simply referring to Jon as what he is, as he does her.

I fully believe that Jon and Sansa, and all the Starks would go to extreme lengths to assist each other. Given everything they have each been through, I imagine that if one Stark was in a position to help another, they would.

[Lord Damian]

If sansa was in Arya's place, yes, If Jon knew the predicament she was in, in the Vale, he might as the iron Bank person to "assist" him.

[Kanali]

Yes. He's an honorable Stark and she'd be his last kin as far as he knows.

[Nausicaä]

Cut for length

Lovely post <3

[MM22]

Lovely post <3

Thank you. I'm a staunch Sansa supporter, I get carried away :)

[The Angels' Prophet]

Yes. But only if it was otherwise the exact same circumstances. I can't see Jon going, say, to Highgarden, or King's Landing to save her from marriage, but to Winterfell? Yes. She is his sister. When Jon says to Sam that he has no father, only brothers, I don't think he believed it himself.

He believes Bran, Rickon, and Arya to be dead, and knows that Robb and Ned are dead. Yes, he would try to save Sansa.

[The Holy Goat]

There is no doubt i my mind that Jon and Sansa love eachother, so yes, Jon would go far to save her. Sure, they were more distant than with the other siblings, but they still think of eachother in positive terms, and though Sansa cares for propriety, she doesn't seem to think of him in a negative light.