Why Varys would support a fake Aegon (Secret Blackfyre loyalist ?)

[otherbeef]

Expecting that a sacred ten year old and his infant sister who have no real belongings or leadership training is magically going to come across an army willing to fight for them is idiotic. Moreover, by the time that he somewhat gets an Army (and even then only because of Varys and Illyio's plotting) the boy has been driven practically insane and is without any skills to speak of.

You know a person that would be better of not leading an army or being king.

and yet his waiting patiently has allowed him to ally with Aegon and the Golden Company and/or Dany and Dragons. not a bad position to be in.

EDIT: all while sitting out the WOT5K untouched

[Minsc]

and yet his waiting patiently has allowed him to ally with Aegon and the Golden Company and/or Dany and Dragons. not a bad position to be in.

EDIT: all while sitting out the WOT5K untouched

An accomplishment matched by Lysa and Robin Arryn.

[otherbeef]

An accomplishment matched by Lysa and Robin Arryn.

except Doran was planning on siding with a Targ the whole time and would gain more from a Targ alliance due to their close history and potential marriage. sometimes long cons come to fruition.

[Maxpey]

I agree that it seems Varys' and Illyrio's plans had to change and adapt many times over the years but, as to this point, didn't Varys send word to Jorah about the assassination attempt coming for Dany? I can't remember for sure but, if so, that doesn't seem like the actions of someone assuming she would die :dunno:

There is a difference between assuming someone will die and participating in an assassination. Ilyrio thought that Dany would die of natural causes in the Dothraki Sea because he assumed she was too frail to live such a harsh lifestyle. Further, it was Robert who ordered Dany's assassination, not Varys or Illyrio. To go one step further, Varys plan of having Jorah prevent the assassination would accomplish 2 things; (1) it would provoke the Khal into invading Westeros; and (2) it would ingratiate Jorah with the Dothraki.

[N/A]

To be fair, Doran is a obvious Targaryen supporter and his "brilliant" plan was equally to just abandon Viserys and hope that the boy magically comes across an army willing to fight for a beggar.

i suppose he is a patient man after all

[Minsc]

except Doran was planning on siding with a Targ the whole time and would gain more from a Targ alliance due to their close history and potential marriage. sometimes long cons come to fruition.

The only reason Doran is even close to any of his objetives is because of events he had no part in at all. If Robert/Cersei had turned into a situation similar to Ned/Cat then Tywin's grandson would be sitting comfortably on the Iron Throne without challenge while Doran could only pout.

Simply, his "success" has nothing to do with his plotting or political skills or even himself in general.

[Prince of the North]

There is a difference between assuming someone will die and participating in an assassination.

Um, I never said nor do I think that Varys or Illyrio ordered or participated in Dany's assassination attempt.

Ilyrio thought that Dany would die of natural causes in the Dothraki Sea because he assumed she was too frail to live such a harsh lifestyle.

I know.

Further, it was Robert who ordered Dany's assassination, not Varys or Illyrio.

I know. What I said was that I thought Varys sent word of it to his spy (Jorah Mormont) in Dany's camp and that, if that's the case, it doesn't seem to be something someone "assuming Dany would die" would do.

To go one step further, Varys plan of having Jorah prevent the assassination would accomplish 2 things; (1) it would provoke the Khal into invading Westeros; and (2) it would ingratiate Jorah with the Dothraki.

Yep, I know this, too.

[otherbeef]

The only reason Doran is even close to any of his objetives is because of events he had no part in at all. If Robert/Cersei had turned into a situation similar to Ned/Cat then Tywin's grandson would be sitting comfortably on the Iron Throne without challenge while Doran could only pout.

Simply, his "success" has nothing to do with his plotting or political skills or even himself in general.

not really, the Targs would return eventually

[Steinnis]

except Doran was planning on siding with a Targ the whole time and would gain more from a Targ alliance due to their close history and potential marriage. sometimes long cons come to fruition.

Yep. You have to admit he's in a better situation now, than he ever could of been had he simply rebelled against the IT, following the event of RR. Patience is a virtue, it would seem. He now has a possible alliance with Dany (Dragons) and/or Aegon.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Because he himself is a Blackfyre, but obviously he can't continue the family line. Varys in many theories had a sister names Serra. She in turn married Illyrio, but died during childbirth birthing their son Aegon. Varys then is Aegon's uncle, and that's why he wants him on the throne.

[Minsc]

not really, the Targs would return eventually

Doran has no clue about Aegon and he had no part in assisting Viserys/Dany, thus neither one of them can be connected to his success or actions.

Simply, his plan was to sit there and hope Viserys finds an army. Never once does Doran actually assist Viserys achieve that goal in order to bring the Targaryens over. Instead, it is only because of Varys's plans that the Targaryens have any position in the game. In how without him and Illyrio then Viserys would still be the Beggar King and Dany would still be a frightened little girl all while Doran continues to wait for something to happen.

[Maxpey]

Um, I never said nor do I think that Varys or Illyrio ordered or participated in Dany's assassination attempt.

I know.

I know. What I said was that I thought Varys sent word of it to his spy (Jorah Mormont) in Dany's camp and that, if that's the case, it doesn't seem to be something someone "assuming Dany would die" would do.

Yep, I know this, too.

I thought you were asking the question why Illyrio would have expected Dany to die but then take action to prevent such a scenario from occurring. I now realize you were simply making an observation. My bad.

[rondo has three heads]

quite the opposite this kinda proves that he has to be fake (Blackfyre) just like you said why didn't he work that hard on Viserys

which kinda relates to the Varys and Ileryo are Blackfyres or blackfyre supporters theories

Yeah this..some confusing language by the OP

[Prince of the North]

I thought you were asking the question why Illyrio would have expected Dany to die but then take action to prevent such a scenario from occurring. I now realize you were simply making an observation. My bad.

No problem, I'm probably coming across here a little testier than I intended as well :)

Something I don't remember, however, is that it was actually Illyrio (not Varys or Varys through Illyrio) who tipped Jorah off about the assassin. I'll have to look for that...

[The Idiots Lantern]

There's a dozen reasons why Varys would support a fake Aegon, ranging from him being a secret Blackfyre to him just getting sick of serving Bad Kings and deciding to find a white haired boy and mold him into the perfect king with the perfect education and value set.

Something I don't remember, however, is that it was actually Illyrio (not Varys or Varys through Illyrio) who tipped Jorah off about the assassin. I'll have to look for that...

If I remember correctly, it was Varys who warned Jorah that Robert would be sending assassins for Daenerys, I assume because although Illario has convinced him Viserys is useless, they still need Dany to give truth to Aegon's claim. If she accepts he's real and allies with him (preferably marries him) then they'll have a much easier time selling Aegon's "long lost son of Rheagar" story.

[Maxpey]

No problem, I'm probably coming across here a little testier than I intended as well :)

Something I don't remember, however, is that it was actually Illyrio (not Varys or Varys through Illyrio) who tipped Jorah off about the assassin. I'll have to look for that...

I am not sure either. I always assumed it was Varys and that he used Illyrio as the intermediary.

[Ser Leftwich]

Barristan mentions that Viserys showed signs of madness in his youth, something like 'signs of being Aerys's son.' Which would have been before the Robellion. A better environment for Viserys would probably not made enough difference.

[Prince of the North]

If I remember correctly, it was Varys who warned Jorah that Robert would be sending assassins for Daenerys, I assume because although Illario has convinced him Viserys is useless, they still need Dany to give truth to Aegon's claim. If she accepts he's real and allies with him (preferably marries him) then they'll have a much easier time selling Aegon's "long lost son of Rheagar" story.

I am not sure either. I always assumed it was Varys and that he used Illyrio as the intermediary.

This was/is my thinking as well but, admittedly, I don't remember exactly. But there was the following post up-thread and I was hoping to maybe get a quote from the books about it. :dunno:

It wasn't Varys who sent word to Jorah, it was Illyrio. I've posted my theory in the past as to why, but suffice it to say, I believe at some point Illyrio and Varys started to have different agendas especially when it came to Dany.

[Bravely Done]

You have to do a ton of reaching to come to the conclusion that either Varys or Illyrio are Blackfyre's, or in some way related to Aegon. It's far more likely that the both of them are Targ loyalist, as their actions have suggested throughout the series.

Be it Danny or Aegon, they've had a hand in the development or aided in some fashion every single remaining Targ. No, I do not think it a coincidence that it was Illyrio who provided Danny with the eggs that she'll eventually conquer Westeros with. No more than I think it a coincidence that this same individual, along with Varys, also had a hand in propping up Aegon. They could have killed Danny a long time ago if that were their motives.

[Frey family reunion]

Ah, OK. You don't happen to have the books electronically so you could easily post a quote or quotes here showing this, do you? If so, I'd sure appreciate it. If not, then I can certainly research it the old fashioned way. I believe you but I'd still love to see the quotes and incorporate them into my own theorizing about all of this :)

Sure,

The knight drew out a folded parchment, "A letter to Viserys, from Magister Illyrio. Robert Baratheon offers lands and lordships for your death, or your brother's."