Of the 3 (or 4?) remaining Starks.... Who would you give Winterfell to?

[Northernmonkey]

Comparing apples to oranges, I'm afraid. Bran is a greenseer in addition to being a warg. Arya and Jon are not.

What, you think eating that goop was just to give Bran a little head-trip ? You don't think Bloodraven would have left the cave if he could have? No, I'm sure he and all those other greenseers found it a lovely place, that's why they stayed there, and not because, you know, they had to once they'd taken the fateful step.

Presumably Bloodraven couldn't leave the cave because the weirwood roots kept him alive. But he still lived a long and fruitful life before reaching the cave, and Bran will probably do that too.

[The Amethyst Empress]

Jon would be a good lord,but he chose not to take the job..

Bran is inside a tree,so he's pretty busy right now

I wouldn't want Sansa to take Winterfell,bacause that would mean Littlefinger wins and I don't want him to win

I love Arya,she's badass but she's currently training to be a faceless woman sooo no

I don't know maybe Rickon should take it when he grows up

[Dicer]

I said what comes closest to ruling and yes Sansa does something similar to that. As the de facto lady of the eyrie she runs the castle while Littlefinger was away and he does make her privy to his duties as Lord Protector. I would definitely prefer her over feral boy rickon.

And again, what in her narrative makes you think that Sansa is doing something close to ruling? She orders around the maids in LF's castle and makes sure Sweet Robin eats his food and gets out of bed. I don't think that makes her narrative anything close to being about ruling. If you want a narrative about ruling, read Dany's story arc. Or Cersei's. People who are currently trying to rule.

Considering that Sansa is still scared to even speak up when the Lords of the Vale try to engage her in conversation and considering she still does whatever she's told, I don't see her being a good leader currently. She has yet to do anything of her own inclination or come up with some ideas of her own. She does not have the strength of someone like Catelyn.

Rickon is entitled to WF before Sansa anyway. We don't know what's happened to Rickon and how he is now. With some help from the Blackfish or some of the other loyal Northern lords he could rule over WF. Sansa has neither the qualifications or the right to jump over Rickon.

[Winnief]

Rickon is entitled to WF before Sansa anyway.

That's certainly true. And I don't see Sansa trying to push him aside, for the claim.

[MyLittleFinger]

Ramsay Bolton Lord of the Hornwood and Lord of Winterfell and Heir to the Dreadfort.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

And again, what in her narrative makes you think that Sansa is doing something close to ruling? She orders around the maids in LF's castle and makes sure Sweet Robin eats his food and gets out of bed. I don't think that makes her narrative anything close to being about ruling.

Rickon is entitled to WF before Sansa anyway. We don't know what's happened to Rickon and how he is now. With some help from the Blackfish or some of the other loyal Northern lords he could rule over WF. Sansa has neither the qualifications or the right to jump over Rickon.

If you think that is all a lady of a castle does then you are solely mistaken. Running a castle requires careful management of finances, knowing which members of your court are capable of serving you in which capacities - and resolving disputes and conflicts of interest between members of the household and household staff. And to do this as with the authority and decisiveness Sansa exhibits at the Eyrie takes incredible leadership potential, especially since she has no claim to authority as she is the bastard daughter of her largely unpopular 'father'.

This thread isn't about who is "entitled" to Winterfell, but who I ore you want as ruler to Winterfell. And I picked Sansa. Plus regardless of whether Bran or Rickon will be ruler of Winterfell Sansa will still be politically relevant in the North.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Well, since Sansa is one of my favorite characters, I would really love for her to end up with some sort of holding. But something about Brandon come again(Rickon) becoming the new Lord of Winterfell really appeals to me.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Well, since Sansa is one of my favorite characters, I would really love for her to end up with some sort of holding. But something about Brandon come again(Rickon) becoming the new Lord of Winterfell really appeals to me.

Personally I would love to see Sansa as Queen in the North and it would make a whole lot more sense IMO, but it will most likely not happen. Well at least she will be the lady of winterfell until Rickon or Bran marry and be a political adviser/diplomat to the North. I am sure the Northern lords would definitely value her opinion when they have to deal with the South and whomever ends up on the Iron Throne. I think Sansa will end up as the mix of Catelyn and Queen of Thorns. Not necessarily hold an official title, but still hold tremendous power :cool4:

[Dicer]

If you think that is all a lady of a castle does then you are solely mistaken. Running a castle requires careful management of finances, knowing which members of your court are capable of serving you in which capacities - and resolving disputes and conflicts of interest between members of the household and household staff. And to do this as with the authority and decisiveness Sansa exhibits at the Eyrie takes incredible leadership potential, especially since she has no claim to authority as she is the bastard daughter of her largely unpopular 'father'.

This thread isn't about who is "entitled" to Winterfell, but who I ore you want as ruler to Winterfell. And I picked Sansa. Plus regardless of whether Bran or Rickon will be ruler of Winterfell Sansa will still be politically relevant in the North.

And you think Sansa is managing the finances of the Eyrie for LF?? Really? Where does it show that in the text. Where does it explicitly say that Sansa is running the entire castle by herself? And she is also managing a court? And resolving disputes? I must have missed all that in AFfC. Time for a reread.

Sorry, but I have seen no leadership potential in Sansa. She is still a scared, naive girl who thinks that LF is telling her lies that are kindly meant and for her own good. She gets the authority she has at the castle because LF gives it to her for his own nefarious reasons. Not for any special qualification she has. Maybe for the one qualification that LF is actually interested in. Her beauty and that she looks like Cat.

We can see how she uses this 'authority' she has. The maester refuses to dose SR with extra sweet sleep until Sansa threatens to tell LF. People follow her orders because LF makes it happen. That's not very hard to do: "If you don't do this I will tell daddy!". You think she can do that at WF to make people follow her orders?

Again, I don't see anything in Sansa's narrative about learning to rule. As I mentioned earlier, a narrative about a young character learning to rule is what Dany's arc is all about. One can clearly see the difference between Dany's story and Sansa's.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

And you think Sansa is managing the finances of the Eyrie for LF?? Really? Where does it show that in the text. Where does it explicitly say that Sansa is running the entire castle by herself? And she is also managing a court? And resolving disputes? I must have missed all that in AFfC. Time for a reread.

Sorry, but I have seen no leadership potential in Sansa. She is still a scared, naive girl who thinks that LF is telling her lies that are kindly meant and for her own good. She gets the authority she has at the castle because LF gives it to her for his own nefarious reasons. Not for any special qualification she has. Maybe for the one qualification that LF is actually interested in. Her beauty and that she looks like Cat.

We can see how she uses this 'authority' she has. The maester refuses to dose SR with extra sweet sleep until Sansa threatens to tell LF. People follow her orders because LF makes it happen.

Again, I see no qualifications for actually ruling. As I mentioned earlier, a narrative about a young character learning to rule is what Dany's arc is all about. One can clearly see the difference between Dany's story and Sansa's.

I told you what a Lady of a Castle does, and Littlefinger was temporarily away between her first chapter and second chapter in AFFC so it is safe to assume Sansa did it. Besides I also said that what Littlefinger does as Lord Protector - running the Vale and the Eyrie - Sansa most likely watches what he does. I mean running a castle is what she was raised to do all her life. Plus anyone who knows how medieval society works knows that a large castle is similar a miniature city. Running a castle is like ruling a kingdom on a much smaller scale.

[Dicer]

I told you what a Lady of a Castle does, and Littlefinger was temporarily away between her first chapter and second chapter in AFFC so it is safe to assume Sansa did it. Besides I also said that what Littlefinger does as Lord Protector - running the Vale and the Eyrie - Sansa most likely watches what he does so she does have an idea a decent idea how it works. I mean running a castle is what she was raised to do all her life. Plus anyone who knows how medieval society works knows that a large castle is similar running a castle on a smaller scale.

Again we see nothing of all this. We see her give orders to some maids and interact with SR. That's about it. What if LF has a steward and assistants that run the castle, just like Ned had at WF. You are assuming that Sansa was running an entire castle by herself, managing finances, holding court and resolving disputes, when we see nothing of all that.

And again we don't see Sansa watching LF running the vale. That's your assumption. She is too busy trying to keep SR away from her breasts. LF gives her a couple of lessons on how he manipulated the lords of the Vale. And that's about it.

When people want Sansa to rule or be a great Queen or a master player that's mostly wishful thinking. There's nothing in the text that supports Sansa getting any kind of training that suggests that she will be a good ruler or master player. Ruling is hard to do as we see with both Dany's and Cersei's arc. Not to mention how King Robert failed spectacularly. How does Sansa ordering some maids around stand up against all the experience that Dany gained in Meereen?

[Fat Trell]

If you think that is all a lady of a castle does then you are solely mistaken. Running a castle requires careful management of finances, knowing which members of your court are capable of serving you in which capacities - and resolving disputes and conflicts of interest between members of the household and household staff. And to do this as with the authority and decisiveness Sansa exhibits at the Eyrie takes incredible leadership potential, especially since she has no claim to authority as she is the bastard daughter of her largely unpopular 'father'.

This thread isn't about who is "entitled" to Winterfell, but who I ore you want as ruler to Winterfell. And I picked Sansa. Plus regardless of whether Bran or Rickon will be ruler of Winterfell Sansa will still be politically relevant in the North.

Sansa doesn't really rule the castle though. She never mentions handling any finances(in aGoT Arya actually says Sansa has no head for numbers) or resolving disputes. The Eyrie doesn't hold a conventional court either. The only responsibilities she has during her time in the Vale thus far seem to be taking care of Robert, greeting the Lords Declarant, and closing up the Eyrie for winter.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Again we see nothing of all this. We see her give orders to some maids and interact with SR. That's about it. What if LF has a steward and assistants that run the castle, just like Ned had at WF. You are assuming that Sansa was running an entire castle by herself, managing finances, holding court and resolving disputes, when we see nothing of all that.

And again we don't see Sansa watching LF running the vale. That's your assumption. She is too busy trying to keep SR away from her breasts. LF gives her a couple of lessons on how he manipulated the lords of the Vale. And that's about it.

When people want Sansa to rule or be a great Queen or a master player that's mostly wishful thinking. There's nothing in the text that supports Sansa getting any kind of training that suggests that she will be a good ruler or master player. Ruling is hard to do as we see with both Dany's and Cersei's arc. Not to mention how King Robert failed spectacularly. How does Sansa ordering some maids around stand up against all the experience that Dany gained in Meereen?

Even with steward and assistants - which hasn't been confirmed - Sansa as the de facto lady of the eyrie does still involve running things in the castle. And I said that running a castle is similar to ruling, but on a smaller scale. Plus being a lady of a Castle is something she was trained to be all her life. Never have I stated that Sansa is made to rule nor that she should run a kingdom at this point of her narrative. What I said is that what Sansa is doing would make her more suitable for ruling then her younger siblings. Nobody has said that Sansa will become a master player. You are pulling a straw man. What Sansa fans are saying is that she will become a player. Why do I think this? Because despite the fact how unpredictable this book series is the POV Stark characters follow a certain trajectory:

Jon was steward and trained by Lord Commander Mormont - became Lord Commander

Arya has been trained by the FM to become an assassin - fulfilled her training

Bran has been thought by both Jojen and Bloodraven about green seeing and warging - becomes greenseer

Sansa's arc has been about politics, court intrigue and game of thrones and is currently being trained by Littlefinger - she will obviously become a player.

Please be reasonable.

Sansa doesn't really rule the castle though. She never mentions handling any finances(in aGoT Arya actually says Sansa has no head for numbers) or resolving disputes. The Eyrie doesn't hold a conventional court either. The only responsibilities she has during her time in the Vale thus far seem to be taking care of Robert, greeting the Lords Declarant, and closing up the Eyrie for winter.

It is stated in the westeros wiki page that she is the de facto lady of the eyrie and that most likely requires responsibilities. Just because Sansa wasn't good at householding and sums when she was eleven years old doesn't mean she isn't incapable of learning afterwards. And since GRRM doesn't address the fact how much she sucks at it right now it is safe to assume she has gotten better at it.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

And please lets not derail the topic - yes I am partly responsible for this. This thread is about who we want as ruler of winterfell. I picked Sansa big deal -_-.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

bran. he better not become a full time tree. what would be the point of all that lord training in book 2 if it is for nothing

[Fat Trell]

Even with steward and assistants - which hasn't been confirmed - Sansa as the de facto lady of the eyrie does still involve running things in the castle. And I said that running a castle is similar to ruling, but on a smaller scale. Plus being a lady of a Castle is something she was trained to be all her life. Never have I stated that Sansa is made to rule nor that she should run a kingdom at this point of her narrative. What I said is that what Sansa is doing would make her more suitable for ruling then her younger siblings. Nobody has said that Sansa will become a master player. You are pulling a straw man. What Sansa fans are saying is that she will become a player. Why do I think this? Because despite the fact how unpredictable this book series is the POV Stark characters follow a certain trajectory:

Jon was steward and trained by Lord Commander Mormont - became Lord Commander

Arya has been trained by the FM to become an assassin - fulfilled her training

Bran has been thought by both Jojen and Bloodraven about green seeing and warging - becomes greenseer

Sansa's arc has been about politics, court intrigue and game of thrones and is currently being trained by Littlefinger - she will obviously become a player.

Please be reasonable.

It is stated in the westeros wiki page that she is the de facto lady of the eyrie and that most likely requires responsibilities. Just because Sansa wasn't good at householding and sums when she was eleven years old doesn't mean she isn't incapable of learning afterwards. And since GRRM doesn't address the fact how much she sucks at it right now it is safe to assume she has gotten better at it.

Except we've closely followed Sansa's life from age 11 on, she doesn't even have lessons following Septa Mordane's death at the end of aGoT. GRRM probably doesn't address this because her skill at managing a household has no bearing on her current situation due to her not managing a household.

The text does not imply Sansa has any real responsibility besides attending to Robert.

[Dicer]

Even with steward and assistants - which hasn't been confirmed - Sansa as the de facto lady of the eyrie does still involve running things in the castle. And I said that running a castle is similar to ruling, but on a smaller scale. Plus being a lady of a Castle is something she was trained to be all her life. Never have I stated that Sansa is made to rule nor that she should run a kingdom at this point of her narrative. What I said is that what Sansa is doing would make her more suitable for ruling then her younger siblings.

So you are assuming that there are no stewards and assistants, because it's not mentioned in the text. But you are assuming Sansa is taking care of everything in the castle, even though that's not mentioned in the text either. When you say that Sansa is running the castle, that's an assumption. There is nothing in the text to support that statement. Ordering some maids around (Because LF has given her the authority) is not similar to ruling on a smaller scale.

I don't see how Sansa taking care of SR makes her any more suitable to rule than Bran (Who has actual training to be a leader from his father and his father's men) or Rickon (about whom we don't know anything at this point).

Nobody has said that Sansa will become a master player. You are pulling a straw man. What Sansa fans are saying is that she will become a player. Why do I think this? Because despite the fact how unpredictable this book series is the POV Stark characters follow a certain trajectory:

Jon was steward and trained by Lord Commander Mormont - became Lord Commander

Arya has been trained by the FM to become an assassin - fulfilled her training

Bran has been thought by both Jojen and Bloodraven about green seeing and warging - becomes greenseer

Sansa's arc has been about politics, court intrigue and game of thrones and is currently being trained by Littlefinger - she will obviously become a player.

Please be reasonable.

We only have two books left and we are yet to see Sansa get any significant training or use that training. Let's see:

Jon: trained by Ned, Stark men, Mormont, Donal, Maester Aemon etc in the first 3 books. Puts that training to use in book 5

Arya: trained by Syrio, faceless men etc in the early books. Puts that training to use and killed someone in book 5.

Bran: trained by Jojen and three eyed crow in the earlier books. Is now comfortable with warging and is using the weirnet. Has reached Bloodraven.

Dany: trained by Drogo, Mormont and Selmy in earlier books. Is actually fighting wars and ruling over cities.

So how is Sansa's arc similar to any of them? She has basically been moved here and there by the people with power and has had no agency for most of her story. She is too scared to make any moves on her own and has no initiative except to follow the directives of others. LF has pointed out a couple of the tricks he used on the Vale lords. That's been the extent of her training. Sansa has still not even figured out LF.

For Sansa to follow the same path as the other young characters, GRRM has to spend the majority of the next two books on her. Devote 13 chapters to her arc in TWoW as he did for Dany and Jon in ADwD. Considering that we should have Dany's invasion of Westeros, a second dance of dragons and the impendng attack of the Others I think the focus of the next couple of books will be on Dany, Bran, Tyrion and Jon.

If Sansa was going to become a player or a Queen, GRRM would have developed her sooner. Like he did the other young characters. Instead she is still where she was in book 2.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

So you are assuming that there are no stewards and assistants, because it's not mentioned in the text. But you are assuming Sansa is taking care of everything in the castle, even though that's not mentioned in the text either. When you say that Sansa is running the castle, that's an assumption. There is nothing in the text to support that statement. Ordering some maids around (Because LF has given her the authority) is not similar to ruling on a smaller scale.

I don't see how Sansa taking care of SR makes her any more suitable to rule than Bran (Who has actual training to be a leader from his father and his father's men) or Rickon (about whom we don't know anything at this point).

We only have two books left and we are yet to see Sansa get any significant training or use that training. Let's see:

Jon: trained by Ned, Stark men, Mormont, Donal, Maester Aemon etc in the first 3 books. Puts that training to use in book 5

Arya: trained by Syrio, faceless men etc in the early books. Puts that training to use and killed someone in book 5.

Bran: trained by Jojen and three eyed crow in the earlier books. Is now comfortable with warging and is using the weirnet. Has reached Bloodraven.

Dany: trained by Drogo, Mormont and Selmy in earlier books. Is actually fighting wars and ruling over cities.

So how is Sansa's arc similar to any of them? She has basically been moved here and there by the people with power and has had no agency for most of her story. She is too scared to make any moves on her own and has no initiative except to follow the directives of others. LF has pointed out a couple of the tricks he used on the Vale lords. That's been the extent of her training. Sansa has still not even figured out LF.

For Sansa to follow the same path as the other young characters, GRRM has to spend the majority of the next two books on her. Devote 13 chapters to her arc in TWoW as he did for Dany and Jon in ADwD. Considering that we should have Dany's invasion of Westeros, a second dance of dragons and the impendng attack of the Others I think the focus of the next couple of books will be on Dany, Bran, Tyrion and Jon.

If Sansa was going to become a player or a Queen, GRRM would have developed her sooner. Like he did the other young characters. Instead she is still where she was in book 2.

Have you even read my post? I also said that even with the stewards and assistants Sansa is still de facto Lady of the Eyrie and she does require to do duties that befit that title. Plus this is what she was raised to do all her life. Being Lady of a Castle was something she was trained to be. So yes Sansa does knows what it takes to be a Lady of a Castle and has decent concept of ruling.

If you think that Sansa came under Littlefinger's tutelage as a blanco page then I have to disappoint you. Most of things she was indirectly learned by Cersei, Margaery, Lady Olenna and to some degree Sandor. Believe it or not most of the qualities she has to be a player she required at King's Landing. Her courtesy of armor is essentially a "poker face"; she knows how to hide her emotions very well and her level of self-control is high. Observant; she was the only one - besides olenna and littlefinger both astute players - who foresaw the second kingslaying coup of Joffrey/Margaery/Loras and because of it war would break out in King's Landing between Tyrells and Lannisters, learned fairly easily what was going on in the Vale and knew that Lyn Corbray was the mole of Littlefinger among the Lord Declarants. Lying: Lies and Arbor Gold she lied to Littlefinger into his face and he didn't realize it so I would say that lying is coming very easily for her. Manipulative; I admit she isn't overly good at it but still two examples: manipulated joffrey so he wouldn't kill Dontos, persuaded Tyrion to not come along with her to the Godswood. Quick-witted: how quickly recovered in her first chapter in AGOT and came to the aid of frightened noblewomen and calmed them - this also shows that she can work under pressure. Yes Sansa has mainly been on the defense, but that was because she couldn't do anything else as she had no agency nor the power to do anything else.

Though in AFFC that absolutely changes. While it may seem in first glance she went to one abuse to the other she has a whole lot more freedom than before. We learned from Sansa that the Older branch of Royce and some other houses were to the point of revolt against Lady Arryn to join Robb. So we know that there are Stark supporters there. Sansa can make possibly allies here in the Vale. Aside from this we know that Littlefinger has some scheme for Sansa and we have been given some hints that she won't go along with his plan. Sansa doesn't want to wed, not now and perhaps never. And since his scheme requires the death of her cousin gives her even more reason to revolt against him. Despite his bratty behaviour Sansa has developed a bond with him and since how heartbroken she was about the death of her family I don't think she will go along with her cousin's death. As last her last chapter ended before we got any glimpse into her thoughts. This sounds to me that GRRM is setting up and giving us hints that there is a high probability that Sansa won't go along with Littlefinger and outrightly go work against him and make the next step of becoming a player. Lastly we should never forget about the "Maid slaying the Giant". To me we are getting awful a lot of hints that Sansa is set up to become a political player in the upcoming two books and has a large role to play. I hardly doubt that GRRM would give her 24 chapters, pay attention to her character development and give us so many thematic and foreshadowing of her narrative if she wasn't important or would play a big role.

Plus we should never ever forget these two little things: A Time of Wolves & The Wolves will come again.

[Lord Reaver]

If Sansa was going to become a player or a Queen, GRRM would have developed her sooner. Like he did the other young characters. Instead she is still where she was in book 2.

Sansa is not still where she was in book 2. If you can't see how she's changed since then, well, I'm sorry for you.

GRRM doesn't develop all characters at the same pace. Not by a long shot. There's simply far too many for him to do so and even attempt to have any sort of cohesion.

Sansa got some serious development in ADWD, though, unlike many other characters. She is definitely not the starry eyed little girl who dreamt about a knight in shiny armour.

[Salinda]

None

Give it to Shireen