Of the 3 (or 4?) remaining Starks.... Who would you give Winterfell to?

[intheswamp]

Rickon, with a regent until he is of age.

I'm not expecting Bran's body to ever leave that cave. I think Sansa will end up the lady of another area. I can't see Arya fitting in again at court. Unless his personality greatly changes, Jon wouldn't take the seat as long as he knows one of his siblings lives and he is still bound by his vows. I see three options for Jon being a King at the end of the series: King of the Seven Kingdoms, King Beyond the Wall (or what's left of the Wall), or the Night's King.

[Mithras]

I'm not expecting Bran's body to ever leave that cave.

I think the cave will certainly be attacked by the Others. They already know where they are and who they are. It is only a matter of time they find a way to dispel that ward.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I'd give it to whomever was rightfully the heir.Unless they are unable to rule it,like if bran stays stuck in a tree.

[Demon Monkey]

I'm hoping that Bran won't be stuck in the cave forever, Winterfell should be his.

[Sub_Zero94]

Not Sansa.. her betrayal led to Eddards death

I wonder if she'll have to answer for that in some capacity

[Minsc]

Not Sansa.. her betrayal led to Eddards death

I wonder if she'll have to answer for that in some capacity

I think being held captive by Joffrey and repeatedly beaten by grown men and threatened with rape should cover her disobeying her father, who had already told Cersei everything she needed to know to act.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

^x2

Thats pretty harsh, ultimately, it was all pretty meaningless in the end. After Cersei had her "you live or you die" moment with Ned and LF's scheming, she had all she needed and Sansa's confession was just the icing on the cake.

I wanna say Rickon, but " A child lord is the bane of any House"- RB :smoking:

Sansa is coming back with a vengeance and she's really the only one left out her siblings who really can, right now. Bran is going to be a Tree, Arya is a ninja and Jon, well... maybe i'm being biased but he should stay up at the wall and do his duty and defend the realms against the foes of men

[Sub_Zero94]

Cercei didn't know Sansa and Arya were being sent home... In a hurry, via ship. If she wasn't told when, the girls would have been long gone(possibly) and things would have been far different.

Imagine Robb/Edmure holding Jamie and Cercei/Tyrion not having any Starks

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

@TWLD

I think you hit on something unintentionally. I have always seen Arya possibly ending up in the Riverlands. She has so much water imagery going on, and yes, her family is more important to her than Winterfell itself.

Same reason I see her in Storms End if she lives.

[Charles Calthrop]

Agreed that the majority of ASPD persons don't. However, trauma victims are far, far less likely to kill. (Statistically little different from a baseline person in a threatened or 'life and death' situation. Her behavior is really not consistent with trauma.)

Some ASPD do have traits associated with leadership - more so psychopaths rather than sociopaths (although socios often rise to be dysfunctional leaders). Machiavellianism is often associated with psychopaths, particularly in the so-called 'Dark Triad' personality.

Let's take the assertion 'most rulers will kill more than Arya has'. While that's 'true' on the face of it, most rulers likely kill less than Arya has prior to their acension. In fact most of them kill less throughout that whole period, than Arya has as a little girl of not yet 10. Further, most of the 'killing' those rulers do, will be indirectly, in war, or in passing sentence on criminals. Additionally, there's a big neurological difference between killing by proxy vs. killing with your own hands. While its too early to tell (her ability to take initiative could be molded, and she might normalize / lose the blood lust somewhat), the early indications don't exactly favor putting her in power and having a great reign.

On your other note, completely agree - LF could be a candidate for DT - i can see some narcissism there, obviously very high on machiavellianism. Psychopathy's a bit harder - he's clearly not clinical level, as he's acutely aware of the consequences of his actions and does care about them. Also he loved Cat. (A clinical has very, very little concern of consequences and is nearly incapable of love.) Doesn't mean he still couldn't be a high-scoring sub-clinical.

Actually the majority of those who suffer from anti social personality disorder don't kill.

Not to mention they have traits that are associated with leadership. Fearless dominance as well as Machiavellian traits. Most rulers will kill more than Arya.

Also, it's said that Sansa is learning from the best but LF fits it far more than Arya. He is skilled at politics though.

[Grimbold]

At the current moment of the story?

It's a toss up between Jon (assuming he survives) and Brandon (if he doesn't become a tree).

Rickon, well it's obvious, he's currently known to be impulsive and wild. He'd be given Winterfell but he wouldn't rule it anyway.

Sansa would need more growing up, continuously taking advantage of LF's teachings to known how to proceed.

[Hippocras]

Charles Calthrop

LF did not love Cat, he simply said he did.

What he really did was go after her for her potential inheritance, pretending he loved her, and when that didn't work he went after Lysa and got her pregnant. When that also failed, he stewed and brooded for a little while, and then he go himself a sweet position with Jon Arryn. From that moment on he built up his next plan, still focused on somehow grabbing Catelyn's birthright for himself.

When he arrived in King's Landing he went around slut shaming her. Hardly a loving thing to do.

Then he lied and schemed and got her son nearly killed, her husband beheaded, her daughter framed for regicide and her and her oldest son brutally slaughtered.

Feeling the love.

[ARYa_Nym]

Agreed that the majority of ASPD persons don't. However, trauma victims are far, far less likely to kill. (Statistically little different from a baseline person in a threatened or 'life and death' situation. Her behavior is really not consistent with trauma.)

Some ASPD do have traits associated with leadership - more so psychopaths rather than sociopaths (although socios often rise to be dysfunctional leaders). Machiavellianism is often associated with psychopaths, particularly in the so-called 'Dark Triad' personality.

Let's take the assertion 'most rulers will kill more than Arya has'. While that's 'true' on the face of it, most rulers likely kill less than Arya has prior to their acension. In fact most of them kill less throughout that whole period, than Arya has as a little girl of not yet 10. Further, most of the 'killing' those rulers do, will be indirectly, in war, or in passing sentence on criminals. Additionally, there's a big neurological difference between killing by proxy vs. killing with your own hands. While its too early to tell (her ability to take initiative could be molded, and she might normalize / lose the blood lust somewhat), the early indications don't exactly favor putting her in power and having a great reign.

On your other note, completely agree - LF could be a candidate for DT - i can see some narcissism there, obviously very high on machiavellianism. Psychopathy's a bit harder - he's clearly not clinical level, as he's acutely aware of the consequences of his actions and does care about them. Also he loved Cat. (A clinical has very, very little concern of consequences and is nearly incapable of love.) Doesn't mean he still couldn't be a high-scoring sub-clinical.

All 3 Lannister children fit it more than Arya does. & Tyrion is just a mini Tywin. That's what I was talking about earlier. Tywin was an effective ruler but he has committed more atrocities than Arya ever will. IRL he'd be a war criminal for using systematic rape and plunder as physical and psychological warfare.

I never read comments that say that Tyrion shouldn't be either an adviser to Dany, rule Casterly Rock, or shouldn't have been Hand because he's a sociopath.

Yes, Arya has killed. But so has Tyrion. He's also raped and advocates things such as poisoning the wells which is just him thinking in Tywin like mindset.

You have rulers who are also vengeful. Tywin will have someone raped for what he just thinks is a slight. He like Euron uses humiliation in retaliation. Robb will have thousands die to avenge his father.

ETA: In addition, Tywin can wipe out a whole house which includes women and children. He can have babies butchered and find their killers useful and not have much if any remorse or guilt over that.

Roose is also someone who there is more reason to think he is one. He has political awareness and was able to outmaneuver the Starks. Let's not forget that the Boltons have been in power for thousands of years and Roose's behavior wouldn't be out of the norm. If sociopaths shouldn't have anything to do with politics what does that say when Roose was able to politically outsmart the North/Riverlands?

LF point blank fits the criteria more than she does. That didn't prevent him from excelling at politics. Actually it helped him. & his ability to charm helped him stay under the radar. These types of people blend in with society.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that she should rule. I disagree with the reasoning as to why she can't.

[jon stark I]

Well as far as I know a legitimized bastart still goes on the end of male heir list.Even if it fell to Jon to be the Lord I wouldn't like a Targeryan in the throne.I think Rickon must live and he has to be King of Winter.Bran as his adviser and Jon as his military commender.Each kid will get a keep or castle like Dreadfort or Hornwood since those two won't have an heir after Ramsay and Roose dies.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Well as far as I know a legitimized bastart still goes on the end of male heir list.Even if it fell to Jon to be the Lord I wouldn't like a Targeryan in the throne.I think Rickon must live and he has to be King of Winter.Bran as his adviser and Jon as his military commender.Each kid will get a keep or castle like Dreadfort or Hornwood since those two won't have an heir after Ramsay and Roose dies.

As an advisor he would be baddass(WN visions wuold come in handy) He's going to become a tree, most like... so i dont know about a keep or castle

[Charles Calthrop]

this sounds a little harsh, dont you think?

hes... what, five or six? whole family killed or disappeared according to him, wildling foster mother and a giant direwolf likely to start tearing out throats without a moments notice...

Will fully admit that I'm being harsh and a bit biased against my least favorite Stark. I just really cringe at the 'Deus Ex Machina' potential of Rickon. Couple it with his 'wild and fierce' nature, even before everything happens, and I just can't get behind the character as a ruler.

That said, he's likely to end up in a position of authority - after Bran (who is basically the Anakin Skywalker of Greenseers and unlikely to come back to 'regular' life), Rickon is heir to Winterfell and the North, and should Edmure die without issue, he's also in contention to be heir to Riverrun and the Riverlands - unless there's a male Tully cousin. (E.g. if they exist, Lord Hoster's paternal uncle's sons/grandsons/great-grandsons).

With no real reader investment in Rickon, he's also extremely unlikely to die.

[Lord Reaver]

Will fully admit that I'm being harsh and a bit biased against my least favorite Stark. I just really cringe at the 'Deus Ex Machina' potential of Rickon. Couple it with his 'wild and fierce' nature, even before everything happens, and I just can't get behind the character as a ruler.

Please, do go on and explain how Rickon is a 'deus ex machina'. I find him neither contrived or unexpected, nor is he a new character just suddenly appearing because the author has put himself in a bad spot.

[The Mother of The Others]

Hopefully they'll all be moving. Winterfell is a husk.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Bran

[jentario]

Bran