Crazy theory, could Tyrion not be a Lannister but a Targaryen?

[spinelladude]

I know this sounds crazy and a little funny, but I can't help but find it an amusing thought when I give creedence to the idea that Aegon/young Griff is a fake and that there needs to be a third head to the dragon, which I think Tyrion would make a good head on the dragons shoulders. I'm on my second read of the series, and after reading some things all over again, and after finding a brief background history of the relationship between Tywin and Aerys, I couldn't help but wonder.

According to Illyrio when he and Tyrion are crossing the flatlands of the Rhyone, Illyrio mentions that Varys was hired when Aerys started having concerns about a friend of his that he grew up with that was becoming too proud of himself the he made his hand. And then it's been stated that Aerys had a fancy for Joanna Lannister and made it know that he wished that he could bed her before Tywin did at the wedding feast. Then it's mentioned by Cersei that Tyrion was name of a past king of the West, so perhaps Joanna named Tyrion after a king because he was a member of the royal family?

I know its crazy but it would be interesting. As Aemon mentions, Targaryens are afflicted with Dragon dreams, which are their glory and curse, to which Tyrion mentions dreaming of riding dragons when he was a child, giving up on the dreams after he was told all dragons were dead. Also him being Aery's son would justify the reason why Tywin is against him inheriting Casterly Rock, besides being a dwarf, and yes if this is the case why not kill Tyrion if he was Aery's child? Well if it was found out his wife sired a child that wasn't his he would be humiliated, and also the love that he bears for Joanna might drive him to keep her child alive. Also, perhaps Aerys naming Jamie to the Kingsguard was to make it so Tyrion would inherit Casterly Rock instead of Jamie, besides keeping Jamie as a sort of hostage against Tywin.

Another thing to consider is that with Tyrion killing Tywin, if he isn't actually his son, then he isn't a kinslayer and cursed by the gods.

Once again this is just a crazy thought I had, so let me know what you guys think and feel free to love it or to point out where it doesn't work.

[The Prince of Ice]

This is an old theory just saying. I disagree if any Lannisters are Targs its Jaime and Cersei.

Tyrion is the one who is most like Tywin of his proginy makes sense Tywin is his blood father.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Yes, it's a fairly popular theory but most people will say it's crackpot and nonsensical.

I believe it could be true, though there's not much evidence.

But...

I have a feeling about this one. The whole thing about their mothers dying in child birth feels a lot like blood magic targ stuff relating the three of them. I don't really like the idea, but it's the one crackpot theory I think is true. I would be happier, even if Martin wants it to be true, if he didn't reveal or strongly implied it. At least I wouldn't want Tyrion to know, it would take a lot from his character.

[spinelladude]

Thanks guys. I'm new to the forums so I'm not sure where the older posts are, but sorry for restating whats been posted before.

But I'm with you Dany on how I feel about it. It seems crackpot and i'd be cool with Martin playing cool with it if it does go that way.

[ambi76]

Well, he would be both anyway because Joanna was a Lannister.

[Dany Girl]

Thanks guys. I'm new to the forums so I'm not sure where the older posts are, but sorry for restating whats been posted before.

But I'm with you Dany on how I feel about it. It seems crackpot and i'd be cool with Martin playing cool with it if it does go that way.

There is a search function, it's really helpful. And welcome to the forums! :cheers:

[Dragonstar]

Thanks guys. I'm new to the forums so I'm not sure where the older posts are, but sorry for restating whats been posted before.

But I'm with you Dany on how I feel about it. It seems crackpot and i'd be cool with Martin playing cool with it if it does go that way.

Welcome to the forums. Ignore cranky old forum dwellers.

It is definitely a theory that has its share of vehement believers and naysayers.

I personally think that at the very least, GRRM has planted enough seeds of doubt for the theory to have at least some textual basis.

And if you watch the tv show, there's a scene between Tyrion & Tywin that is just very oddly and interstingly scripted that brought this theory to mind. .

[Nami]

I know Targaryens are awesome and all but please, the only one who's gonna be revealed to be a Targ will be Jon.

If GRRM uses that card more than once it will be ridiculous. I think he's a better writer than that

[The Prince of Ice]

Welcome to the forums. Ignore cranky old forum dwellers.

It is definitely a theory that has its share of vehement believers and naysayers.

I personally think that at the very least, GRRM has planted enough seeds of doubt for the theory to have at least some textual basis.

And if you watch the tv show, there's a scene between Tyrion & Tywin that is just very oddly and interstingly scripted that brought this theory to mind. .

who you calling cranky? :box:

[Inquisitor Glokta]

What would be so cool about it?

like 70% of Tyrion's character depends on his complicated relationship to his father, who although they have more in common than Tywin and Jaime + Cersei combined, despises him deeply.

Genna, Tywin's sister says so to Jaime in Riverrun (AFFC).

Tyrion is Tywin's son.

And now don't start quoting Tywin's

You are not my son.

He says the exact same line to Jaime, after he refuses to leave the KG and inherit CR. In Tywin's eyes, this is the most hurtful thing he can say to his children.

It would also be bad storytelling imo. We already have a secret hidden Targaryen und another dude showing up 1/3 through book 5 who is supposedly a hidden Targaryen. We don't need anymore secret Targaryen parentage revelations, it get's old...

edit: Also it would be more than just ridiculous for Tyrion to ride a dragon, he is barely able to ride a horse...

[chrisdaw]

It's likely. Would tie many loose ends left dangling together, as would Tywin being infertile and none of Joanna's children being his.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Why would Joanna, after being raped by Aerys, not drink moontea? Can anyone explain this to me?

[chrisdaw]

Why would you assume if they were to have had sex that it was not consensual?

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Same question applies. For all she knew, she could have popped out a baby with silver hair and purple eyes. I don't think she would have risked that.

It makes even less sense, not to drink moontea, if they were having an affair.

[chrisdaw]

Well if she wants children and believes/knows Tywin to be impotent or infertile moon tea may be defeating the whole purpose of the act.

[WhiteOwl18]

I know Targaryens are awesome and all but please, the only one who's gonna be revealed to be a Targ will be Jon.

If GRRM uses that card more than once it will be ridiculous. I think he's a better writer than that

Agreed!

Also spinelladude, welcome to the forums! :cheers:

[Pikachu101]

It's a cheap, watered down idea and completely destroys the complexity of Tyrion's relationship with Tywin <_<

We already have two secret Targs there's no need for another!

Why should Tyrion be a Targ anyway?

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Well if she wants children and believes/knows Tywin to be impotent or infertile moon tea may be defeating the whole purpose of the act.

And where exactly is it said, that Tywin was infertile? This is speculation based only on hopes and wishes, without any text proof.

Again why would Joanna risk giving birth to a child with Targaryen looks?

edit:

It's a cheap, watered down idea and completely destroys the complexity of Tyrion's relationship with Tywin <_<

We already have two secret Targs there's no need for another!

Why should Tyrion be a Targ anyway?

:agree:

[chrisdaw]

It's absolutely speculation, based on providing relevance for various items in the text for which there is yet none.

[Maia]

I know Targaryens are awesome and all but please, the only one who's gonna be revealed to be a Targ will be Jon.

_Three_ heads has the dragon ;). If Aegon is "the mummer's dragon", i.e. fake enough not to count for the trinity, then who is third?

I won't reiterate all the evidence, but there is quite a bit, even if it is not quite as clear as in case of Jon.

What would be so cool about it?

like 70% of Tyrion's character depends on his complicated relationship to his father, who although they have more in common than Tywin and Jaime + Cersei combined, despises him deeply.

And a lot of Jon's character doesn't depend on Ned's influence and juxtaposition with him? Would it all become meaningless, you think, once it is officially revealed that Ned was "only" his blood uncle?

As to having more in common argument, you know how people often have more in common with their students/protegees than their children iRL and the dramas it sometimes causes? You don't need to be related for that at all, even though Tyrion and Tywin would be related, no matter the former's paternity.

Also it would be more than just ridiculous for Tyrion to ride a dragon, he is barely able to ride a horse...

Why would it be more ridiculous than anybody else riding one? All humans are small when compared to a grown dragon, the difference would be quite insignificant. And Tyrion has that saddle-designing expertise, that allows him to ride horses in the first place, for a reason.