Black Crow Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Ok, you're right. Then, what are the "shades" that were set free from the graves?Or maybe actually nothing "magical" was on those graves and Ygritte is being superstitious? Just another case of an unrealiable narrator?Yeah, I think this is just one of those passages that has been over-analysed. All I think she was saying was that they desecrated all those graves for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avernite Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 speak for yourself mate, i love me some cold.Well, okay. On average, men tend to die like flies when it's cold, and breed like rabbits when it's warm.Or, in other words: historically, human population density has tended to be higher in warm-temperate areas, simply because poor people who are a bit hungry and have no roof die when it's cold, while not doing so as quickly when it's warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormund's beard Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well, okay. On average, men tend to die like flies when it's cold, and breed like rabbits when it's warm.Or, in other words: historically, human population density has tended to be higher in warm-temperate areas, simply because poor people who are a bit hungry and have no roof die when it's cold, while not doing so as quickly when it's warm.agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well, okay. On average, men tend to die like flies when it's cold, and breed like rabbits when it's warm.Or, in other words: historically, human population density has tended to be higher in warm-temperate areas, simply because poor people who are a bit hungry and have no roof die when it's cold, while not doing so as quickly when it's warm.The other extreme is also true. Dorne is hot and sparsely populated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I agree, in retrospect regarding the 'shades let loose quote' , that all Ygritte meant was that the ghosts of the inhabitants had been let out, and not in a tangible way. However, when I first read that quote, to me it implied a 'wakening of the old powers' much like what the Halfhand says, and with that the implication that perhaps the dead were rising beyond the wall in various ways, not simply those associated with the WW. I accept now that this probably isn't the case but I am rather saddened by this as it was a wonderfully spooky image the first time I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofagerl Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I originally thought the bodies of dead men (and LONG dead as well) rose from their graves after they were opened, but that doesn't make sense, since they could just burn them. (Bones do burn, but it takes a lot more heat.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMtThatRides...Your Mom Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 you didn't understand the question it seems...then explain it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toccs Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 speak for yourself mate, i love me some cold.I much prefer the cold too. Although down here in the Lands of Always Summer (Australia) we don't get too much of it lately, seeing as how it's right now the middle of Winter and it feels just like it did back in Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthernWarrior Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I think this is right. The problem is that is doesn't square with the standard human legend (Old Nan e.g.) about the great invasion of wights/Others, their being driven back, the Wall being built to keep them back, etc.etc. Maybe humans didn't know the CotF built it, didn't realize its true purpose, and over time the folklore developed that it had been built by humans to keep the bad guys back.Aye I think it is probably ironic... that the humans have it backwards. The others invaded to drive the humans south, giving the children time to do their magics and build the wall with the giants. The Wall is to keep the humans south not the Others north. Once it was built the children make peace with the humans and say look we built this wall to help you keep the others back, establish the nights watch and guard it! We'll even give you these obsidian pieces to help! The human (Stark?) who makes the peace deal comes off as a hero, driving the the Others back meanwhile they were probably withdrawing on their own. Children get their santucary North of the wall. Other then some funny business with the Nights King it all works out quite well all around other than the poor souls who died during it.I always thought it was quite odd that the Last Hero had to go on this mighty quest to find the children. If the children where similar threatened by the others, as they would be if they were not in league with them, would they not have sought an alliance too? The story should be how the humans and children united to beat evil others and were forever friends, and that is why the children are welcome in the North. But that is the not the story, the story is the humans had to beg the children for aid and even after the aid the children disappeared to North of the wall. This makes no sense unless the children set it all up in the first place so that they could establish the wall and carve north of it as their own and make it seem like it was the humans idea or at least to the humans benefit. It might seem a little elaborate until you consider their other attempts to keep the humans back, how drastic they were and how they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I much prefer the cold too. Although down here in the Lands of Always Summer (Australia) we don't get too much of it lately, seeing as how it's right now the middle of Winter and it feels just like it did back in Summer.I have friends in Brazil and New Zealand, both saying they are freezing.Aye I think it is probably ironic... that the humans have it backwards. The others invaded to drive the humans south, giving the children time to do their magics and build the wall with the giants. The Wall is to keep the humans south not the Others north. Once it was built the children make peace with the humans and say look we built this wall to help you keep the others back, establish the nights watch and guard it! We'll even give you these obsidian pieces to help! The human (Stark?) who makes the peace deal comes off as a hero, driving the the Others back meanwhile they were probably withdrawing on their own. Children get their santucary North of the wall. Other then some funny business with the Nights King it all works out quite well all around other than the poor souls who died during it.I always thought it was quite odd that the Last Hero had to go on this mighty quest to find the children. If the children where similar threatened by the others, as they would be if they were not in league with them, would they not have sought an alliance too? The story should be how the humans and children united to beat evil others and were forever friends, and that is why the children are welcome in the North. But that is the not the story, the story is the humans had to beg the children for aid and even after the aid the children disappeared to North of the wall. This makes no sense unless the children set it all up in the first place so that they could establish the wall and carve north of it as their own and make it seem like it was the humans idea or at least to the humans benefit. It might seem a little elaborate until you consider their other attempts to keep the humans back, how drastic they were and how they failed.But why made a Wall that humans can pass through but the Others not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I know I know Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 But it was in decline. Dragons died out, glass candles quit working, etc. Maesters, maybe others (Varys?) were working to shut it down. Then (IMHO!) it got a new lease on life from Summerhall.Apologies, I bet this has been covered before, but I can't search it out.How did Summerhall kick off the turning of the tide and rise of the sea of magic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 But it was in decline. Dragons died out, glass candles quit working, etc. Maesters, maybe others (Varys?) were working to shut it down. Then (IMHO!) it got a new lease on life from Summerhall.I don't think that Varys is against magic like he would have people believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 It's whatever that thing is in the opening credits of the show. (my guess)What the Hell is that thing in the opening Credits??? I've never really paid attention to it, but it is very odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormund's beard Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Okay, but what is the fire? Some ancient Dragon god, the father of Fire and Blood? A Supervulcano that needs to be put out?is the king/queen/ruler of the fire-sidhe a.k.a rhllor who is on dick measuring contest wiiiiiiiiith a herring the king/queen/ruler of the ice-sidhe a.k.a the great other, and humans are their pawns and playthings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The symbol / revolving glowing thing is an Astrolabe, in ancient times in was used to solve problems of time. It was also used to observe celestial events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red roggo Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 What if Craster is a descendant of the Last Hero? Could part of the pact between men & the white walkers be Craster giving up his sons? Mormont tells Jon that Craster bears a heavy curse, could giving up his sons be the curse? Craster states he has had 99 sons, what if #100 is his replacement as seed donor for the white walkers? If so could Gilly's baby be #100 & the white walkers expect Craster and his wives to raise the child until he is able to take his fathers(Craster) place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 But why made a Wall that humans can pass through but the Others not?We don't know that they can't, and while humans can the Wall has very effectively prevented them passing through in any number - as I said earlier no attempt has been made to repopulate the area or reclaim the lost kingdoms beyond the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 What the Hell is that thing in the opening Credits??? I've never really paid attention to it, but it is very odd...it's the Red Comet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Aye I think it is probably ironic... that the humans have it backwards. The others invaded to drive the humans south, giving the children time to do their magics and build the wall with the giants. The Wall is to keep the humans south not the Others north. Once it was built the children make peace with the humans and say look we built this wall to help you keep the others back, establish the nights watch and guard it! We'll even give you these obsidian pieces to help! The human (Stark?) who makes the peace deal comes off as a hero, driving the the Others back meanwhile they were probably withdrawing on their own. Children get their santucary North of the wall. Other then some funny business with the Nights King it all works out quite well all around other than the poor souls who died during it.I always thought it was quite odd that the Last Hero had to go on this mighty quest to find the children. If the children where similar threatened by the others, as they would be if they were not in league with them, would they not have sought an alliance too? The story should be how the humans and children united to beat evil others and were forever friends, and that is why the children are welcome in the North. But that is the not the story, the story is the humans had to beg the children for aid and even after the aid the children disappeared to North of the wall. This makes no sense unless the children set it all up in the first place so that they could establish the wall and carve north of it as their own and make it seem like it was the humans idea or at least to the humans benefit. It might seem a little elaborate until you consider their other attempts to keep the humans back, how drastic they were and how they failed.This, very largely is what we're arguing and the only comment I'd make - and that just for clarity - is that the last hero is a bit of a misnomer. Thirteen of them set out on the quest, of which he was the last survivor. I know it sounds a bit semantic but there is an impression that one day the Last Hero saddled up and set off with 12 faithful companions, and he's known as the last hero not only because he was the last of them but because nobody knows who that last survivor was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 This, very largely is what we're arguing and the only comment I'd make - and that just for clarity - is that the last hero is a bit of a misnomer. Thirteen of them set out on the quest, of which he was the last survivor. I know it sounds a bit semantic but there is an impression that one day the Last Hero saddled up and set off with 12 faithful companions, and he's known as the last hero not only because he was the last of them but because nobody knows who that last survivor was.And again we have the number 13 which may or may not be the actual number. Thinking of norse references like 13th warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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