Shireen's True Purpose (spoilers)

[Stannis Lives]

If we combined this one with another theory around here (that Mel was freeing Ghost right as Jon was attacked due to something she saw in her fires), then I think we may have the whole sequence.

Mel frees Ghost, who immediately runs to Jon's aid, killing the attackers. Mel arrives and we find out that Jon is still alive, but only barely, and she says it will take great magic to save him. Meanwhile he wargs to Ghost (much like Bran) and travels North, where we learn more about what the Others are up to, which includes marching on the wall. Mel talks Selyse into sacrificing Shireen, telling her that the God of Light has shown her the path to victory over the Great Other. They do the sacrifice, Jon is "reborn", and Patchface frees the wights and opens the doors just as the Others arrive. They storm the wall, and Jon kills Mel for sacrificing Shireen, with Selyse killed in the attack. After being defeated and forced to retreat, Jon rallies the remaining Night's Watch and wildlings to head south on his initial mission, and to warn them of the Others coming,

My thoughts EXACTLY

[ZeeAppoponaxComes]

Word.

[Jon of the Dead]

Very good theory OP, I just wanna add a couple of things I wrote in another thread about this, as it seems right now Shireen is a hot topic (horrible pun, I'm sorry).

First, I think GRRM has made a good job setting up things for Mel to be the most powerful or influential person at the Wall at the moment. Jon's been stabbed, Maester Aemon's gone and dead, Stannis is thought to be dead, Mance is far away. Technically, Shireen is Queen (since everyone thinks Stannis is dead), Selyse is her Regent (I think) and she is a complete puppet of Mel. If Mel says Shireen's gonna be burned, who can stand up to her? Maybe Tormund and some members of the Night's Watch, but I don't think they could fight The Queen's Men and Marsh and his goons.

Second, some people say Mel wouldn't be capable of burning Shireen, but think about it: Mel has just learned that Stannis is dead, her personal messiah, and everything she believed in is crumbling before her eyes. She might decide to turn to desperate measures like burning a child.

And third, my theory is that Mel is going to pull off some crazy magic/glamor and say it was thanks to Shireen's death. This is because of the prophecy of the HotU: "From a stone tower, a huge stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire". As many have pointed out, the stone dragon could refer to Shireen, and I think the shadow fire part sounds like Mel. And also, remember this is one of the lies Dany is supposed to slay, the others being Stannis as AA and Aegon as the mummer's dragon. In order for Dany to have a lie to "slay", then Mel has to accomplish something with Shireen's sacrifice, something that will fool the people at the Wall for a while.

Just my two cents, and again, great theory, OP

[Burdette]

I'm just holding out hope that Shireen is a dragon rider. The girl needs to catch a break, and I would like if she played an important role somehow.

[jenerationx]

Why not? If Stannis is believed dead, and she sees something from her fires that tell her that Jon is AAR, instead of Stannis? She was pushing to sacrifice Edric, and only Davos was able to stop her, and neither Davos nor Stannis are at the wall to stop her from it this time.

I don't even think it's necessary for her to see Jon as AAR to do this. Per something I proposed earlier, it's quite possible for her to try and "bring Stannis back from the dead" (regardless of if he's dead or not), since he's her champion. But as we have seen in her POV before, she could use ambiguous phrasing in the request (e.g. "bring Azor Ahai back to your servants") and instead of resurrecting Stannis, she accidentally brings AA back in the form of Jon.

Re: other things that have been said in this thread... I don't think Mel is evil, but that doesn't mean I don't think her capable of sacrificing Shireen. She has sacrificed plenty of others without blinking an eye. I do think she's misunderstood in the sense that up until this moment, many of us, myself included, thought that she was a malicious person, or deliberately lying about her visions in order to further her own agenda, or both. Instead, from the one chapter we got in her POV, we see that she's just terrible at interpreting her visions, not that she's telling falsehoods; and that she's not malicious, she's just very devoted to her cause. As GRRM has also said, in our own heads, none of us are 'evil.' We all think we are doing the right thing, and the same is true for her.

[thesmilingspider]

This theory makes me sad because I love Shireen...and it seems plausible.

Like a lot of posters, I don't agree with your post entirely, but I do think Mel is going to sac her for king's blood, poor girl.

[The Mother of The Others]

This is why their fool sees them dying by water ? Because Selyse and the red priestess will have played with fire in some horrible way and someone will respond by dousing them and their silliness?

I still like the idea of a dragon melting the wall right over where some disturbingly offbase fire ritual is being performed to mimic the drowning-in-the-sea vision Patch is always going on about. And if somebody is around who can call out to the drowned god, who knows, they may be able to bring Shireen back as a drowned convert.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

This is why their fool sees them dying by water ? Because Selyse and the red priestess will have played with fire in some horrible way and someone will respond by dousing them and their silliness?

I still like the idea of a dragon melting the wall right over where some disturbingly offbase fire ritual is being performed to mimic the drowning-in-the-sea vision Patch is always going on about. And if somebody is around who can call out to the drowned god, who knows, they may be able to bring Shireen back as a drowned convert.

Well I think that this theory prescribes to the thought that when Patchface says "sea" he's referring to death.

[house-martell-rules-me]

This theory makes me sad although it is very convincing. I really wanted Shireen to be happy. :bawl:

[Jô Maltese]

Best thread I have read in months. :thumbsup: Well done Stannis Lives for your OP (and Ser Wun Wun for your enlightening follow-on post), I think you did dig some truth out of GRRM's machiavellic mind... I may just add that Shireen's casting in the TV series convinced me she had a key role to play later in the story and here you are! :bowdown:

[The Red Melli]

People seem to assume she's evil but I think there's a lot more to her, like when it's revealed in her POV that she kept Davos' son back because he'd suffered enough (despite him wanting to kill her).

As GRRM mentioned Melisandre is the most misunderstood character.

I don't think she will burn Shireen I think she will kill Patchface by protecting Shireen. :)

[Stannis Lives]

People seem to assume she's evil but I think there's a lot more to her, like when it's revealed in her POV that she kept Davos' son back because he'd suffered enough (despite him wanting to kill her).

As GRRM mentioned Melisandre is the most misunderstood character.

I don't think she will burn Shireen I think she will kill Patchface by protecting Shireen. :)

I don't think Mel is evil. I think all she does is for the the good of the realm of men and for the word of The Lord of light. However, what is good is open to her interpretation and interpretation of her visions. Nobody looks in the mirror and sees a bad guy. Everyone has their unique understanding of meaning and purpose. She won't burn shireen because she's evil. She will burn shireen because its what she believes she needs to do to save humanity. As I mentioned earlier, I think Mel also realizes that this action will lead to her death as well, however she is sacrificing herself for Jon's rebirth which is explicitly what makes her nissa nissa.

[Stannis Lives]

http://www.npr.org/2...lays-not-my-job

This is a good catch but I don't think it means anything. It's about POV, not about reality. It could be perceived signs. It could be subtle signs. It could be a red herring from GRRM. It might not be correct that it fulfills some magical prophecy but it might still be Jon's awakening and Jon's rebirth. I think the entire prophecy component is metaphorical and open to interpretation. It doesn't change the narrative or the course of events however.

[The Red Melli]

I don't think Mel is evil. I think all she does is for the the good of the realm of men and for the word of The Lord of light. However, what is good is open to her interpretation and interpretation of her visions. Nobody looks in the mirror and sees a bad guy. Everyone has their unique understanding of meaning and purpose. She won't burn shireen because she's evil. She will burn shireen because its what she believes she needs to do to save humanity. As I mentioned earlier, I think Mel also realizes that this action will lead to her death as well, however she is sacrificing herself for Jon's rebirth which is explicitly what makes her nissa nissa.

I think she will work together with Bran. She can't do it alone I assume and they have both reasons to save Jon.

I also think she will get a heroic death. She has already enough malicious BS on her hands.

[sabrecmc]

I don't think Mel is evil. I think all she does is for the the good of the realm of men and for the word of The Lord of light. However, what is good is open to her interpretation and interpretation of her visions. Nobody looks in the mirror and sees a bad guy. Everyone has their unique understanding of meaning and purpose. She won't burn shireen because she's evil. She will burn shireen because its what she believes she needs to do to save humanity. As I mentioned earlier, I think Mel also realizes that this action will lead to her death as well, however she is sacrificing herself for Jon's rebirth which is explicitly what makes her nissa nissa.

I think this is what makes this theory so fascinating, because in the end...well, Mel might unintentionally be "correct" about the outcome, as horrible as her method may be. If this really is what brings AAR about, someone who can fight the Others and save the Realm, is it worth it? Not to get all political, but it is sort of the classic moral conundrum in war, isn't it? Should we drop the bomb and kill thousands of innocents but stop a war that would drag on and kill even more people? Not only does this make sense from the foreshadowing and narrative perspective and finally put characters to use, but it sets up a nice moral question for the reader, which would be GRRM's style.

And what a horrible burden for Jon, if this is what happens. He tried so hard to get those with king's blood away from Mel...

[TheTowerOfJoy]

I think she will work together with Bran. She can't do it alone I assume and they have both reasons to save Jon.

I also think she will get a heroic death. She has already enough malicious BS on her hands.

I thought she was convinced Bran and Blood Raven were the Great Other?

[The Red Melli]

I thought she was convinced Bran and Blood Raven were the Great Other?

True but Mel isn't sure if this is the enemy or not.

I'm convinced they will work together at the end of the day. :)

[TheTowerOfJoy]

True but Mel isn't sure if this is the enemy or not.

I'm convinced they will work together at the end of the day. :)

Well Bran and Mel certainly seem to have the same goal in mind, though how that would play out I can't get my head around.

[Dragonman1979]

I don't know...if jon is dead and then it is Mel that resurrects him(assuming he even gets a resurrection) one has to think it will be an accident like when Thoros revived Beric for the first time. Perhaps he'll lay in a coma warged into Ghost for a time. Then when his human body dies Mel will give him the fire kiss just as Thoros did for Beric and Jon will awaken.

[The Red Melli]

Well Bran and Mel certainly seem to have the same goal in mind, though how that would play out I can't get my head around.

I guess we will have to wait until GRRM finishes WoW.

ugh.. another 2 years or so ..