Why does Tyrion deserve Casterly Rock?

[Luthien Targaryen]

Well, i think that probably it aught to be allowed for Jaime to inherit it, legally, but that's just me. Why shouldn't the King's bodyguard be allowed to inherit land and titles?

Nobody "deserves" to inherit anything, they're all pretty darned unpleasant to each other. Why is killing your kin worse than killing innocent or unsuspecting other people? And how's it better than getting somebody else to do it for you? Tyrion had personal issues with his old man and girlfriend. Is that worse than chucking a kid or your wife out of a window? Or murdering half the guests at a wedding? Or the groom? Or getting an assassin, shadow baby or psychotic henchman to do it for you?

Westerosi law says that it belongs to Tyrion because as a male he gets precedence over his elder sister, Cersei, and Jaime is ineligible because he's in the Kingsguard. If you're going to deny it to Tyrion on moral rights, you'd better give it to Brynden or Edmure Tully, because they haven't murdered anyone in cold blood recently. Or there's Tommen, but he's King already.

[Black Mike Secret]

Ironic though because by killing Tywin he's pretty much forfeited that birthright by becoming a kinslayer. I don't think he killed Tywin to get Casterly Rock, I think he killed Tywin to spite him, to show that no one is untouchable. Remember how unnerved Tyrion was when he put 2 and 2 together that Tywin orchestrated the RW? I think right that moment planted the seed in Tyrion to prove to Tywin that no one is safe.

True. Let's all face the facts: Tyrion is probably never going to get CR. That's one of the most interesting dynamics about him. The things that are rightfully his get denied to him because of something he can't control. It's the driving force behind all of his behavior.

PS. The scene in the show where Tywin denies Tyrion CR is awesome. One of the few scenes in the show that didn't let me down.

[Mad Monkey]

If you're going to deny it to Tyrion on moral rights, you'd better give it to Brynden or Edmure Tully, because they haven't murdered anyone in cold blood recently.

Eh? If Tyrion is ineligible because of attainder, why would Brynden or Edmure be next in line for the Rock? They don't have any Lannister blood as far as I can tell from the family trees. It makes more sense to look at either Tywin's grand children or the children of his siblings first, before even going outside of the Lannisters to look at cadet branches or distant cousins.

[Steinnis]

I don't think that was completely true. It's not like Tywin intended for anyone to inherit it but Jaime. Tywin believed in the Lannisters working together to get ahead.

Anyway since he killed Tywin, who brought the Lannisters back to power and left his family in a lot of trouble, there is no way he deserves the Rock.

Well, at the time he was still planning on getting Jaime released from his KG vows so he could inherit. He never really expressed an interest in naming anyone but Jaime. He thought if Tyrion inherited the Rock, that he would be seen as a laughing stock, and he also thought Tyrion would shame him with his whoring.

Alot of people might feel differently on whether he deserves the Rock for killing Tywin, namely Dany who he's bound to cross paths with at some stage.

[Minsc]

For the fact that Tyrion was the rightful heir to CR,

Tyrion didn't care about the rights of the rightful heir in ACOK, so why should it matter towards him?

[StarksOfWinterfell]

Westerosi law says that it belongs to Tyrion because as a male he gets precedence over his elder sister, Cersei, and Jaime is ineligible because he's in the Kingsguard. If you're going to deny it to Tyrion on moral rights, you'd better give it to Brynden or Edmure Tully, because they haven't murdered anyone in cold blood recently. Or there's Tommen, but he's King already.

It is not on the basis of morality that Tyrion should not be granted Casterly Rock. It's a volatile country, people kill each other all the time. However, he killed his kin. There is a reason why people say kinslayers are cursed - it's because they insulted the gods by violating sacred laws.

[Luthien Targaryen]

Eh? If Tyrion is ineligible because of attainder, why would Brynden or Edmure be next in line for the Rock? They don't have any Lannister blood as far as I can tell from the family trees. It makes more sense to look at either Tywin's grand children or the children of his siblings first, before even going outside of the Lannisters to look at cadet branches or distant cousins.

I knew, i was partly kidding, and haven't investigated the Lannister family tree hard enough to work out who's alive and hasn't been implicated in murder recently (sorry Lancel, but you were involved in Robert's..) Some of Kevan's kids are still alive right? Willem or Martyn then?

[mrunderhill]

Well, at the time he was still planning on getting Jaime released from his KG vows so he could inherit. He never really expressed an interest in naming anyone but Jaime. He thought if Tyrion inherited the Rock, that he would be seen as a laughing stock, and he also thought Tyrion would shame him with his whoring.

Alot of people might feel differently on whether he deserves the Rock for killing Tywin, namely Dany who he's bound to cross paths with at some stage.

Exactly, Tywin never had a backup plan. There was only one person, who was going to inherit the Rock and that was Jaime. Even if Tyrion was a Jaime clone, I think Tywin would have been furious at Tyrion requesting the Rock. Tywin is very much about the Lannisters working in harmony together. Conflict between Tyrion and Cersei angered him. From his point of view Tyrion should have been thinking of a way to get Jaime back, instead of stealing his birthright.

The whoring and being a dwarf did not help matters.

Dany may feel one way, but I don't think the people of the Westerlands are going to agree with her.

[The Mother of The Others]

Killing his father was the best thing Tyrion ever did.

The funnest!

I don't want him to get CR because it would be too implausible.

Much more plausible now that his father's dead! (And the regime that's holding a grudge about that is about to be swept aside.)

Nobody "deserves" to inherit anything, they're all pretty darned unpleasant to each other. Why is killing your kin worse than killing innocent or unsuspecting other people?

Right! The rule about not killing your kin because that's somehow extra bad, that rule was only put in place by some really nervous kin, you know?

True. Let's all face the facts: Tyrion is probably never going to get CR.

Then how come I see it every time I close my eyes? Him sauntering down the hallways of the Rock singing soberly at home the songs he used to drunkenly ramble off in exile. It's where I see all of this heading. I don't use words like foreshadowing because that sounds pretentious, but hasn't it been clearly laid out for us that his family has denied him his inheritance, which makes it his challenge to claim it by force???

I'm always perplexed when people argue that Tyrion should be Lord of Casterly Rock in the end. I say this because Tyrion violated all the laws of gods and men when he killed his father. It just seems unfair for GRRM to unleash the wrath of the gods on the Freys but not Tyrion.

I realize that you asked about deservingness, but why would the inheritance of the Rock be decided based on who deserves it? Isn't the whole point of the series that the most deserving person sometimes gets beheaded and the least deserving person can be the one who grabs the tiara?

[Zman1863]

I'm always perplexed when people argue that Tyrion should be Lord of Casterly Rock in the end. I say this because Tyrion violated all the laws of gods and men when he killed his father. It just seems unfair for GRRM to unleash the wrath of the gods on the Freys but not Tyrion. He is always going to be one step below the Freys in "people who are eternally cursed". I understand that Tywin was a tough father but his parenting doesn't seem extremely out of ordinary when you compare him to other noble lords (save for The Ned).

Tyrion's violation of the societal taboo of kinslaying might give him problems down the road in claiming his rights to his birthright, but it's not something the Gods or GRRM are going to automatically enforce against him. I think some readers mistakenly view the kinslaying taboo as a statement of objective morality that the Gods enforce. Rather the taboo is a cultural/societal construct that society enforces in a world, like ours, where the existence of the gods cannot be known.

Whether Tyrion becomes the Lord of Casterly Rock depends on whether he has an amount of power sufficient to force people to whisper "kinslayer" behind his back rather than say it to is face.

[Steinnis]

Tyrion didn't care about the rights of the rightful heir in ACOK, so why should it matter towards him?

He was Hand at the time, and Tywin was being repeatedley bested by Robb Stark in the field. Things change, Jaime was captured at the time. And Tywin is dead, as of now, and Jaime is in the KG.

Exactly, Tywin never had a backup plan. There was only one person, who was going to inherit the Rock and that was Jaime. Even if Tyrion was a Jaime clone, I think Tywin would have been furious at Tyrion requesting the Rock. Tywin is very much about the Lannisters working in harmony together. Conflict between Tyrion and Cersei angered him. From his point of view Tyrion should have been thinking of a way to get Jaime back, instead of stealing his birthright.

The whoring and being a dwarf did not help matters.

Dany may feel one way, but I don't think the people of the Westerlands are going to agree with her.

I agree with you concerning Jaime/Tyrion. Strife between Lannister and Lannister can only be seen as an advantage towards their enemies.

Yeah, it's evident that Tywin wasn't too pleased with Tyrion's intentions/actions.

I don't think Tyrion will be recieved with open arms by the Westermen, he's accused of regicide and kinslaying, doesn't paint a pretty picture. Although Dany's success and influence could change that, if he is, indeed, named as lord of CR.

[Minsc]

He was Hand at the time, and Tywin was being repeatedley bested by Robb Stark in the field. Things change, Jaime was captured at the time. And Tywin is dead, as of now, and Jaime is in the KG.

I wasn't referring to Jaime or the Lannisters in that statement.

[The Wolves]

He doesnt deserve it. As much as I hate Tywin, I dont think he was justified in killing him, and more so Shae

Anybody in this series would be justified in killing Tywin. Tyrion did the realm a favor in putting that evil piece of shit down, Tyrion should be held a hero in Westeros' eyes. Tywin deserves anything that came his way and than some that it came from his child is like the best thing ever.

I want Casterly Rock in ruins on Tywin's worthless rotting carcass but if I can't have that than I want Tyrion as Lord of the Rock because I still think he is the best Lannister and that's not saying much

[Steinnis]

I wasn't referring to Jaime or the Lannisters in that statement.

Tyrion defended KL against Stannis until Tywin/Tyrells showed up, wasn't he looking rewarded for his 'valor'? I think that's why he decided to push his claim for CR. Tywin never seen him as worthy, but he proved himself in battle, maybe he thought this would change Tywin's view on him. Not to mention he's still the rightful heir to CR.

Edit: spelling

[Mad Monkey]

I knew, i was partly kidding, and haven't investigated the Lannister family tree hard enough to work out who's alive and hasn't been implicated in murder recently (sorry Lancel, but you were involved in Robert's..) Some of Kevan's kids are still alive right? Willem or Martyn then?

I think Lancel could skate on the murder charge. At worst, he's guilty of the same crime as a bartender who lets someone drive home after he spends a whole evening pounding back shots. Probably some kind of criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter on the outside, and he gets a good lawyer (Robert Strong, maybe?) he could probably get less than four years in the dungeon. The real kicker though is if Tommen gives him a writ of attainder or not. If he does, then he's out of the picture for the same reason as Tyrion; it's not a judgment on whether the person is a good guy or a bad guy, it's a simple legislative declaration of criminal guilt. I guess Kevan's kids are next in line if Cersei's kids are disqualified (which they technically should be since they are bastards).

[The Mother of The Others]

Plus, he's Tyrion, the Indulged. Sitting on some high chair at the Rock and looming over the other Lannister kin would be the fulfillment of that prophetic shadow he cast on the wall as tall as a king.

[oprahnoodlemantra]

I want Tyrion to get Casterly Rock, marry Penny, and turn the Lannisters into a family of dwarves so Tywin turns in his grave.

[Minsc]

Not to mention he still the rightful heir to CR.

Again Tyrion doesn't care about the rights of the rightful heir thus why should they apply to him. Seeing how he actively works to deny the rightful heir his claim in ACOK.

[Mad Monkey]

Again Tyrion doesn't care about the rights of the rightful heir thus why should they apply to him. Seeing how he actively works to deny the rightful heir his claim in ACOK.

Eh? Tyrion doesn't do anything to interfere with the rightful heir to the Rock, does he? I mean, isn't that himself?

[Minsc]

Eh? Tyrion doesn't do anything to interfere with the rightful heir to the Rock, does he? I mean, isn't that himself?

*sigh* I have been attempting to coyly reference Stannis and the Iron Throne.