U.S. Politics - the end of summer edition

[Guest Raidne]

Maybe we could attain some clarity by asking whether we would pay for medication for schizophrenics in prison? Providing necessary medication to prisoners is a no brainer. Sometimes environmental changes can address neurochemical issues, but guess who's not having that option?

[Guest Raidne]

And psychiatric disorders are medical disorders diagnised and treated by medical doctors who went to medical school.

[Durckad]

On a total side note, I wonder if that happens how historians will see Reagan differently.

Really depends upon which side of the political spectrum the historian sits, I think.

[Liffguard]

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that anyone ever thought private prisons were a good idea. Private services within prisons like, say, catering or laundry? Sure why not. But full-on privately operated prisons? With, as I understand it, contracts guaranteeing a minimum incarceration rate? How the hell did that ever come to pass?

[TrackerNeil]

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that anyone ever thought private prisons were a good idea. Private services within prisons like, say, catering or laundry? Sure why not. But full-on privately operated prisons? With, as I understand it, contracts guaranteeing a minimum incarceration rate? How the hell did that ever come to pass?

I could not agree more, and I recommend the book Kids for Cash, which chronicles the unholy alliance between two Luzerne County judges and a privately owned and operated juvenile detention facility. Essentially, these two men were unnecessarily sentencing kids to hard time in return for kickbacks, and it really is difficult for me to imagine a more corrupt and malicious use of institutional power.

[Guest Raidne]

Private corpoate lobbies can only be beaten on an issue if there is a competing lobby or a sufficient number of personally invested voters who are organized. Prison reform generally therefore looks unlikely. War on drugs? Depends on how many voters are illegal drug users who feel like they could get caught and/or want better/safer product vs. how personally everyone else takes paying for their punishment.

History doesn't speak well for the latter...not as sure what's going on with the former.

[Liffguard]

I could not agree more, and I recommend the book Kids for Cash, which chronicles the unholy alliance between two Luzerne County judges and a privately owned and operated juvenile detention facility. Essentially, these two men were unnecessarily sentencing kids to hard time in return for kickbacks, and it really is difficult for me to imagine a more corrupt and malicious use of institutional power.

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me.

I mean, I don't think I'm a particularly naive guy. I understand the incentives that led to this system. I get that a lot of people make a lot of money from this system. But where were the checks and balances? Why isn't there more outrage? Surely even the most dogmatic free-marketeer understands the perverse incentives inherent in a private prison system? Especially one wherein the state is contractually obligated to provide a certain number of inmates? I don't get how the individuals and companies involved get away with being so shamelessly and blatantly corrupt. They don't even try to hide it.

[lokisnow]

Surely even the most dogmatic free-marketeer understands the perverse incentives inherent in a private prison system?

The free market is good. The free market is right. The free market can do no wrong. The free market knows best. If the free market wills it, no incentive can be perverse.

replace free market with state and you start sounding like a socialist. ;)

[Commodore]

Private prison contracts with the state are not free market transactions.

All government spending creates an incentive for the recipients of said spending to lobby for it.

[thecryptile]

I think they get paid a per diem for each prisoner by the state government. Some states outsource their prisoners to other states. Prisons are a big thing in Virginia, we get prisoners from other states. The state of origin pays a per diem for each prisoner. Prisons are a huge industry. Bland County probably wouldn't have anything if the prison closed. It's the largest industry in the place.

[TerraPrime]

Private prison contracts with the state are not free market transactions.

All government spending creates an incentive for the recipients of said spending to lobby for it.

Since it is the State that has the power to imprison, what would you suggest? Or does the Libertarian framework allows for the State run its own prisons? Or are you implying that the State should be stripped of its power to imprison people completely?

[Commodore]

Since it is the State that has the power to imprison, what would you suggest? Or does the Libertarian framework allows for the State run its own prisons? Or are you implying that the State should be stripped of its power to imprison people completely?

Not suggesting anything, but even a state run prison would have to pay a private company to build it, so then you have the same problem of Big Construction or Big Concrete lobbying to build more public prisons.

The solution is to call attention to it and let the voters know what's going on.

[The Iceman of the North]

Not suggesting anything, but even a state run prison would have to pay a private company to build it, so then you have the same problem of Big Construction or Big Concrete lobbying to build more public prisons.

Why would Big Construction or Big Concrete lobby for building more public prisons, as opposed to any other form of public works? Are building prisons inherently more profitable than building schools or roads?

[danm_999]

Why would Big Construction or Big Concrete lobby for building more public prisons, as opposed to any other form of public works? Are building prisons inherently more profitable than building schools or roads?

As a corollary; why would they particularly care about how full the prisons were once they'd been built.

[Lord Mord]

damn_99,

To be fair, they would care inasmuch as it's harder to sell people on building prisons when they've room to spare in the prisons which exist.

[Galactus]

Private prison contracts with the state are not free market transactions.

All government spending creates an incentive for the recipients of said spending to lobby for it.

Err, yes, the are? They're still competing with other providers to win contracts.

[lokisnow]

Why would Big Construction or Big Concrete lobby for building more public prisons, as opposed to any other form of public works? Are building prisons inherently more profitable than building schools or roads?

Why? Because they get $40,000+ per year per prisoner. So every black fella they can arrest is $40,000 straight into the pocket of the rich white owners. That's a much steadier income stream than building infrastructure provides.

It also has the added benefit of the masters getting to stop the blacks they own from voting.

Also, none of these whites happy to lock up blacks would ever think of paying any black $40,000 a year in welfare, but they're thrilled to pay someone else $40,000 a year to provide for their welfare.

[Fez]

Why? Because they get $40,000+ per year per prisoner. So every black fella they can arrest is $40,000 straight into the pocket of the rich white owners. That's a much steadier income stream than building infrastructure provides.

It also has the added benefit of the masters getting to stop the blacks they own from voting.

Also, none of these whites happy to lock up blacks would ever think of paying any black $40,000 a year in welfare, but they're thrilled to pay someone else $40,000 a year to provide for their welfare.

To be fair, the construction industry doesn't get any of that money, the prison operating firms do. Construction firms are usually sub-contractors that don't care what they're building, just that they are building; and they'll get paid the same rates regardless of the building.

[danm_999]

damn_99,

To be fair, they would care inasmuch as it's harder to sell people on building prisons when they've room to spare in the prisons which exist.

Which is why it's a corollary to Iceman's point; what do they care for building prisons specifically, as opposed to other public works?

[karaddin]

Isn't the whole point of privatising services provided by the government so we get the free market reducing costs? It seems like private prisons would still cost basically the same amount, but there is a huge incentive for the prison to reduce costs to increase their own profit at the cost to services provided in the prison etc. So the public pays the same amount, prisoners get worse treatment and a private corporation in the middle gets subsidised profit.