Consigliere Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 LS is not responsible for her actions. Beric Dondarrion is responsible for all the deaths that have happened at LS hands. Beric resurrected Cat despite Thoros warning him that she has been dead for too long. All he succeeded in doing was resurrecting a 'creature' that looks like Cat but is driven purely by vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 what do u mean, she was given a job to find sansa and bring her home from jamie podric is helping her they are travelers with a mission there not lannisters in that sense there using a piece of paper to travel safely from king tommen.That story is absolutely unbelievable though. Ser Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer, the guy that put three children in Queen Cersei's womb, the guy that crippled Bran Stark in his own home, the guy that had Ned attacked and his men killed, the guy with shit for honor, the guy that sent his regards to Robb Stark at the Red Wedding, the guy who sieges Riverrun despite swearing an oath never to take up arms against Tully or Stark, the guy currently threatening to kill Edmure's baby, the guy whose family's survival depends on eradicating any resistance against their rule, that guy should actively help the Starks? No one who hasn't spent an entire book in his PoV or is in love with him woulld believe that. Brienne is probably the only human in entire Planetos to believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDC Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 That story is absolutely unbelievable though. Ser Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer, the guy that put three children in Queen Cersei's womb, the guy that crippled Bran Stark in his own home, the guy that had Ned attacked and his men killed, the guy with shit for honor, the guy that sent his regards to Robb Stark at the Red Wedding, the guy who sieges Riverrun despite swearing an oath never to take up arms against Tully or Stark, the guy currently threatening to kill Edmure's baby, the guy whose family's survival depends on eradicating any resistance against their rule, that guy should actively help the Starks? No one who hasn't spent an entire book in his PoV or is in love with him woulld believe that. Brienne is probably the only human in entire Planetos to believe that.Cat believed it Jaime, otherwise she wouldn't have let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Cat believed it Jaime, otherwise she wouldn't have let him go.No. She believed in Tyrions word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 That story is absolutely unbelievable though. Ser Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer, the guy that put three children in Queen Cersei's womb, the guy that crippled Bran Stark in his own home, the guy that had Ned attacked and his men killed, the guy with shit for honor, the guy that sent his regards to Robb Stark at the Red Wedding, the guy who sieges Riverrun despite swearing an oath never to take up arms against Tully or Stark, the guy currently threatening to kill Edmure's baby, the guy whose family's survival depends on eradicating any resistance against their rule, that guy should actively help the Starks? No one who hasn't spent an entire book in his PoV or is in love with him woulld believe that. Brienne is probably the only human in entire Planetos to believe that.Thank you for this post!It amazes me that some people here think every character in the book has read the Jaime POV chapters. Honestly if I found Brienne with a letter from the false King Tommen, Lannister money in her pocket, and the Imp's squire following her (the same Imp that promised to send Sansa back to her mother but married her instead!), I would also think she was a traitor of the worst kind.And while doing all that she has the nerve to defend the same man leading the charge against Cat's family in Riverrun. I don't think the Jaime fangirls and fanboys understand how awful all that sounds.To Catelyn's credit, she gave Brienne a chance to prove herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisg Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I think it's because she is being ruthless a bit unjustly. She would have hanged Brienne, did hang Ser Hyle and Pod when really all 3 of them have done nothing wrong and all of whom were looking for Sansa. Also as stated Dondarrion gave people e.g. the Hound to prove themsleves with a trial by battle. I suppose Brienne bringing her Jaime is almost her trial but still. Lastly the killing of the Freys has been seen as either a good or thing or unnecessary. Petyr Pimple and the other Frey who was supposed get the Jon Umber drunk really had a little to do with the killings at the RW but some people say they got what they deserved for playing their part while others say they didn't really deserve what happened to them. I can see why she killed them and I think many people in her situation would but at the same time it's like she killed them just for the sake of it really. She knows it's not really going to bother Lord Walder too much if at all therefore their deaths mean nothing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eating My Wings Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 LS is not responsible for her actions. Beric Dondarrion is responsible for all the deaths that have happened at LS hands. Beric resurrected Cat despite Thoros warning him that she has been dead for too long. All he succeeded in doing was resurrecting a 'creature' that looks like Cat but is driven purely by vengeance.Then why does she take care of the orphans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBob Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Well for one she nearly hanged Pod, and while understandable that she's murdering Freys, she'll probably still kill the ones loyal to Robb like Olyvar who had to be kept away from the Red Wedding.I'm still on the fence about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 From Brienne's PoV early in AFFC - "no promise was as solemn as one sworn to the dead." I don't think it's a throwaway line.Why? Jaime deserves death 10 times over by Westeros standards.Theon?I'm not sure I see your point. She's actively trying to fulfill her promise to Cat. Her promise had nothing to do with murdering Jaime. Probably. Catelyn had her chance to pass judgement on him. She erred on the side of her children instead of justice. It's poor judgement because besides Brienne, Jaime is the only person in power we have seen put events in to motion to find Sansa that doesn't have anything to do with murdering her or her claim to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I'm not sure I see your point. She's actively trying to fulfill her promise to Cat. Her promise had nothing to do with murdering Jaime.The point is Brienne swore an oath of fealty to Catelyn and by her own admission should stick to it even after the resurrection. So she should obey her own orders and go kill the enemy leader who totally deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I think it's because she is being ruthless a bit unjustly. She would have hanged Brienne, did hang Ser Hyle and Pod when really all 3 of them have done nothing wrong and all of whom were looking for Sansa.Why wouldn't she want to hang three people looking for last remaining child in attempt to return her to Cersei to be brutally tortured and killed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 In regard to Uncat, this has been on my mind:How long before Thoros has had enough? Or maybe that day will never come? What is it going to take and would he just leave or try to stop her himself? He seems pretty vocal about not liking the course the BWB and Uncat are taking. I am trying to decide what I feel he would do and what would be his last straw, or would he be the type to disagree but never leave or act? I don't know with him.Also, I wonder if anyone else in BWB is disgruntled.And I thought of Edric's BWB faction that left. Gone for good? Wonder what the hell they are doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Then why does she take care of the orphans?Theres no evidence to suggest LS has anything to do with the orphans. For all we know Thoros could be the one giving Lem the orders to watch over the orphans because of supposed Hound activity in the area. And there's no reason to believe that the Heddles and Gendry aren't the ones responsible for the existence of the orphanage. The only thing that can be inferred about LS involvement is that she knows about the existence of the orphanage and hasn't stopped it from existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Well for one she nearly hanged Pod, and while understandable that she's murdering Freys, she'll probably still kill the ones loyal to Robb like Olyvar who had to be kept away from the Red Wedding.I'm still on the fence about her.Hop off the fence and pick up a pitchfork, my son. And we'll send that witch back to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisg Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Why wouldn't she want to hang three people looking for last remaining child in attempt to return her to Cersei to be brutally tortured and killed?Well had she just listened to Brienne she would have known that Brienne did not intend on taking Sansa/Arya back to Cersei. Also there's no reason for her to not believe Brienne considering she's as honest as they come. Almost to honest for her own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Well had she just listened to Brienne she would have known that Brienne did not intend on taking Sansa/Arya back to Cersei. Also there's no reason for her to not believe Brienne considering she's as honest as they come. Almost to honest for her own good.Besides the fact that all evidence points to exact opposite of what Brienne was saying and she isn't witnessed to either Jaime or Brienne's POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squire Dalbridge Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Pod is no child. A squire who participated in battle and killed himself, that's an adult according to Westerosi laws and traditions. As well, according to Westerosi laws and traditions, any commonborn PoW could be put to the sword. And in most cases, would. LS included nobles.Uh, she did listen to her explanations? They were just utterly untrustworthy. And objectively, Brienne is guilty of treason three times over. That she is a nice girl doesn't change that.That's probably the reason she founded an orphanage, is inquiring after Arya all over the Riverlands and all the rest.Pod is a child, 11 or 12 years. In Westeros you become a man at 15. And Brienne has betrayed whom exactly? (Probably Jaime, no one else. And this we don't know for sure yet.)What was it Cat swore to Brienne: I won't ask you anything that puts a shame on you, or something like that. What was that then, when she (LS) asked her bring Jaime to her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 And Brienne has betrayed whom exactly? (Probably Jaime, no one else. And this we don't know for sure yet.)What was it Cat swore to Brienne: I won't ask you anything that puts a shame on you, or something like that. What was that then, when she (LS) asked her bring Jaime to her?Catelyn when she disobeyed a direct order to bring Jaime to justice.A lawful order that wasn't a bit dishonorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Wolf Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Cat actually wanted to die at the Red Wedding, and after being dead for three days and being ressurected with likely only vague memories of her other children and the vivid memory of Robb's murder I'd actually say she was justified in hunting down anyone responsible or associated with his killers. I actually loved when Lady Stoneheart was introduced, there was someone actively working to bring down the Freys. I don't see anything wrong with hanging murderers and the people who served them loyally or people who she rightly thinks have betrayed her like Brienne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Catelyn Stark was too merciful in life. Lady Stoneheart remembers and will not make those same mistakes in death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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