Who is really the Valonqar?

[Wmarshal]

Jaime most like, I can't see a dwarf choking a tall woman with his hands, sorry just can't.

[Snows Queen]

I would love for it to be Tommen. I would love for him to get pissed about always being compared to a psycho by his mother, and in her eyes, falling short. She has also treated his wife pretty bad and who knows what else she will due to f his life up.

[Lady of Lemoncakes]

Keep in mind, Jaime has only one hand and i really doubt gold hands were made to choke...

Arya is a contender, don't rule her out. She's technically a brother to the Brotherhood Without Banners and the Faceless Men. And she's younger than Cersei and probably the person she wants to kill most in the whole world. As for skills set, she is mastering warging, spys and whispers,

communication and has great instincts.

[Nettles]

Choking indicates a personal relationship, a crime of passion, a betrayed lover. Stannis would have Cersei executed, he is all about justice. Victarion could not care less, she would be regular plunder. Arya would use Needle. So, Jaime is my guess as well.

It is funny an army called the Second Sons is in the picture. The valonqars- hehe. Enough to make Cersei even more paranoid.

Edit: spelling

[AnotherCrannogman]

Jamie is being set up as the killer of cersei. Sweet that will be.

[AnotherCrannogman]

Hmmm. Is it murder suicide?

[Parizad]

My theory is it's Little Finger:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102589-valonqar-theory/?p=5328332

[King Tyrion I]

Some of my unsullied friends think it'll be Jaime, I stick with Tyrion.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Choking indicates a personal relationship, a crime of passion, a betrayed lover. Stannis would have Cersei executed, he is all about justice. Victarion could not care less, she would be regular plunder. Arya would use Needle. So, Jaime is my guess as well.

It is funny an army called the Second Sons is in the picture. The valonqars- hehe. Enough to make Cersei even more paranoid.

Edit: spelling

Picture this:

Stannis goes to confront Cersei. Despite what he thinks of her he is still a gentleman and a decent person so he decides to do this quietly rather than parading her shame (and his brother's stupidity) in public. It's just Stannis and Cersei.

1. She tries to seduce him. He succumbs. He's so disgusted both with himself and her that he strangles her.

2. Or...this is Cersei, she'll probably just say something truly awful that sets off the nuclear anger Stannis usually keeps in check.

He's the king and she's committed treason so it counts as a legal execution. Personally I prefer option 2. I don't think Stannis would ever forgive himself if he slept with Cersei.

[Nettles]

Interesting...Well, Stannis does not care for decorum, I can't picture him sparing her anything at all, as he spares people nothing.

1. Stannis made shadow babies with Melisandre and is still alive. He could live with bedding Cersei too.

2. Stannis's use of syntax is far superior to Cersei's. The man can verbally slaughter her, he doesn't have to lift a finger.

I can't ever see Stannis as a strangler of women. I cannot imagine him out of control somehow. He is not my favourinte character, but this would be beneath him.

It would be interesting if the prophesy is inacurate. I read Skinchanging Sweetrobin's theory on the Dornish Masterplan and it looks like the Martells have been destroying house Lannister gradually and methodically. Oberyn may not strangle Cersei in person, but he has surely paved the ground to her grave. He can easily be called the valonqar.

[ToTheWolves]

Hope it's arya.

[Joe McMahon]

What about Sandor Clegane? He's the younger brother of Cersei's champion and his hatred for his older brother is well documented. It would be beautiful if the Hound came back and fought and killed his horrible older brother, condemning Cersei to death in the process.

[newbieone]

Probably someone with a Valyrian connection, otherwise it doesn't make sense to use a Valyrian word.

[barmyscouser]

If Maggy's use of a Valyrian word has specific ramifications for the prophecy, then the valonqar in question would have to be of Valyrian descent. Known characters who have the right blood are Jon and Aegon (if he's real), Stannis, Trystane Martell, and possibly Varys. If the Lannisters are descended in part from the Plumms, then we can add both Jaime and Tyrion.

I suppose we could throw Brown Ben in for kicks. Don't know if he's a younger brother, but he's one of the few characters I could actually see killing someone with his bare hands.

On the crackpot level I'd like to throw in Darkstar if he turns out to be the real Viserys Targaryen.

If the use of a Valyrian word was just GRRM's way of keeping it vague, well then we won't know until Cersei gets strangled in the books.

And for further fun, if she names someone Hand of the King who is a little brother...hands of gold are cold. I could see her naming Jaime Hand whether he wants it or not. And one lying whore has already been strangled with that chain of office. The Lannister boys may have more in common than they know.

The idea that valonqar might be gender neutral has been debunked. Cersei will most likely be killed by a male character. The only way I can see getting around that would be Arya (or another female FM) disguised as a man.

do you have a reference? I have some evidence that valonqar might be gender neutral. The High Valyrian word for prince that was used in The Prince that was Promised could mean prince or princess. Maester Aemon realizes this when he considers whether Dany could be TPtwP.

You might expect Valyrian to be a relatively gender neutral language because it wasn't until the Dance of the Dragons that it was established that a son's claim comes before a daughter's.

You have to at least consider Arya for any potential kill. She has mad ninja skills and body-count. And since Sansa married Tyrion, Arya is Cersei's little sister in-law in-law.

None of this is conclusive, so you may be right.

[Mithras]

Jaime as the Hand of he King. He will use the necklace of the Hand just like Tyrion used on Shae with a single hand.

[Dalfiatach]

the prophecy says: "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat"

Cersei thinks it is Tyrion and both Jamie and Tommen are the "obvious" red herrings. Therefore in the twisted mind of GRRM it'll be someone else!

Arya is still too little to strangle Cersei surely, unless she uses poison.

Sandor returned to kill UnGregor (and then Qyburn and Cersei), yeah works

Stannis....can't really see Stannis strangling someone, even Cersei - but maybe

But..."when your tears have drowned you" could point right at a Greyjoy. Euron claims to have been to Valyria.

Of course maybe we're all over-analysing and it'll just be Jaime after all...

[Mithras]

Cersei thinks it is Tyrion and both Jamie and Tommen are the "obvious" red herrings. Therefore in the twisted mind of GRRM it'll be someone else!

Tyrion is the red herring for the valonqar because Cersei thinks that it is him. Jaime cannot be a red herring because he is never explicitly stated as the valonqar.

Similarly Margaery is the red herring for the younger and more beautiful queen because Cersei thinks it is her.

[MashaRussia]

I am convinced 100 % that Jaime and Cersei will have an epic death together.

But how? Will Jaime kill Cersei before killing himself? Will they both kill each other as the famous twins from a song? Or will it be collective suicide?

I read a theory that "when your ters have drowned you" may refer to the poison Tears of Lys.

The Valonqar part ... I believe Cersei and Jaime are Aerys bastards, so they have both dragon blood of Old Valyria. That's why Maggy used a High Valyrian word.

Choking part ... I don't know really. It seems excessive for me that Jaime will strangle Cersei.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

I was convinced for a long time that the Valonquar was Arya, I think mostly because that's what I wanted to happen. But I just got done with a third read through AFfC and I have seen the light. Littlefinger is the Valonquar. He's already arguably responsible for Joffrey being crowned by betraying Ned, and also for his death with the help of Dontos and the Queen of Thorns. That makes him also responsible for Tommen being crowned. I also believe we'll find out soon that he was also responsible for Darkstar's attempt on Myrcella's life, nor do I think he's finished there. He's trying to keep Cersei's eyes off him as he builds his alliances in the Vale. He is Cat's "little brother" because he grew up a ward of Riverrun, and I believe that makes Sansa the younger, more beautiful queen. But more than that, Cersei has been Littlefinger's pawn ever since Petyr came to KL, and it will be him who decides when to remover her from the game.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

do you have a reference? I have some evidence that valonqar might be gender neutral. The High Valyrian word for prince that was used in The Prince that was Promised could mean prince or princess. Maester Aemon realizes this when he considers whether Dany could be TPtwP.

You might expect Valyrian to be a relatively gender neutral language because it wasn't until the Dance of the Dragons that it was established that a son's claim comes before a daughter's.

You have to at least consider Arya for any potential kill. She has mad ninja skills and body-count. And since Sansa married Tyrion, Arya is Cersei's little sister in-law in-law.

None of this is conclusive, so you may be right.

It's not the Valyrian word for "prince" that's gender neutral, it's the word for "dragon" and the reason is because dragons are gender neutral, not because the language is. Someone decided that the dragon in question must be a Targaryen and, in a very sexist storyworld, that it must also be a man. By the way, the source for the info about it being the word dragon is the text. Maester Aemon says it, "dragons are neither male nor female." I think it's in AFfC.

Also..."the valonqar will wrap his hands..." If the valonqar was female, Maggy would have said "her hands."

I do consider Arya, but she's way down the line of potential candidates because she's probably not going to have the strength in her hands to choke the life out of a grown woman. And because she'd have to be in disguise as a boy. And because so far her training in the morbid arts is all about discretion. There is nothing discreet about choking someone. Sarella Sand would work even better than Arya because Sarella is already posing as a boy, she's older, and she has some serious upper body strength from all her work with that bow and arrow (with which she is insanely good).

Trystane is another possibility. If anything happens to Myrcella or Arianne, he'd be a good bet, provided he can grow up a bit more or is unusually strong for a boy his age. We also don't know the birth order of some pretty possible contenders, like Daario (assuming he makes it to Westeros alive and could come up with a reason to kill Cersei).