Cersei Lannister and the more beautiful queen.

[Darkstream]

No sorry, this sentence is ridiculous. "Someone else" makes no sense in this context. There is a lot of other people that exist all the while Cersei is queen, it's meaningless. Of course a non queen could knock Cersei down, but they couldn't be called "another" or "someone else" it's grammatically and logically not sound. They would have to be called "that person" at least. I know you don't get it... LOL I don't try to be a bitch, let's wait and see, but I know I am right about this.

Now you've really lost me. I don't understand what you mean when you bring up that there is a lot of other people that exist while Cercei is queen. I also don't understand how "that person" works here or fits the context.

And like I've said, if it does turn out to be a queen, that doesn't neseccarily prove you right.

[watcher of the night]

"Until there comes an Other.. younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear..."

You see, it's the night king's blue-eyed queen from beyond the wall, come down from the land of always winter during winds of winter to steal the iron throne and enslave all the men, hehehe

I like this one.

[ftheking]

Now you've really lost me. I don't understand what you mean when you bring up that there is a lot of other people that exist while Cercei is queen. I also don't understand how "that person" works here or fits the context.

And like I've said, if it does turn out to be a queen, that doesn't neseccarily prove you right.

Yeah, I am not an English teacher and have experience explaining this stuff ... but I'm telling you with full confidence that this sentence meaning Aegon or Tyrion would be counted as a mistake in an English essay.

 

The point is that "another" or "someone ELSE" is referring to something very specific, has to refer to something very specific. Otherwise you would just say "someone" (which wouldn't be good stylistically in Maggy's prophesy, but atleast not a mistake) or "a person" or as I say "he" or "she". Why someone ELSE than Cersei in this sentence? Everybody is someone else than Cersei except Cersei anyway. (Yeah, that's again the type of explanation that doesn't help, right?) You can't just use words like "another" or "someone else", because you think just using "he" is getting boring. You need context.

 

Btw. Frank asked Sally to marry him, but she loves someone.

 

...is just not a very good sentence, right? These things aren't just interchangable. Here you need to point out that she loves someone ELSE than Frank to give this sentence meaning. It works the other way too. 

[RedShirt47]

Is Jaime's love something Cersei really holds dear? It always felt to me that Cersei didn't really love Jaime but liked having control of him. She hoped she could get him to kill Tyrion. She wanted him close to be her Champion and save her from the nasty Faith.
If Jaime did love someone else Cersei would be furious and likely try to kill that person but not because of the love itself but because of her lose of control and influence over Jaime.

Cersei definitely holds her children dear. And the power of being Queen / Regent. Losing these would grieve her dearly.

[Darkstream]

(Yeah, that's again the type of explanation that doesn't help, right?)

Actually, that did help, what you are saying does make sense. Admitedly, I had to read your post about five times, but I think I follow your logic here. :thumbsup:

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Yeah, I am not an English teacher and have experience explaining this stuff ... but I'm telling you with full confidence that this sentence meaning Aegon or Tyrion would be counted as a mistake in an English essay.

 

The point is that "another" or "someone ELSE" is referring to something very specific, has to refer to something very specific. Otherwise you would just say "someone" (which wouldn't be good stylistically in Maggy's prophesy, but atleast not a mistake) or "a person" or as I say "he" or "she". Why someone ELSE than Cersei in this sentence? Everybody is someone else than Cersei except Cersei anyway. (Yeah, that's again the type of explanation that doesn't help, right?) You can't just use words like "another" or "someone else", because you think just using "he" is getting boring. You need context.

 

Btw. Frank asked Sally to marry him, but she loves someone.

 

...is just not a very good sentence, right? These things aren't just interchangable. Here you need to point out that she loves someone ELSE than Frank to give this sentence meaning. It works the other way too. 

The character giving the information is not a native English speaker.  People speak without using proper English all the time.  Part of GRRM's brilliance is his ability to give each character a distinct voice.  Part of Maggy's voice may be that she defies English grammar rules.

 

Also this is not an English essay. And any teacher who would mark down a student for their character's lack of proper language needs to go back to school.  A decent English language professional should be able to tell the difference between narrative and dialogue. 

 

ETA: NEVERMIND! I thought this had veered back to the valonqar again. My mistake.

[Pigeon Pie]

But she's been under a lot of stress, she's gained weight, and she's had her hair shaved off.

 

Now take Myrcella, who is said to have all of her mother's beauty but none of her personality, and contrast her blossoming into womanhood with a Cersei headed downhill.  Add in the burn of the YMBQ being her own daughter...

 

Probably, but I expect Cersei to be dead before Dany gets her butt to Westeros.

 

You're forgetting that Myrcella's face was mutilated, though. 

 

My previous expectation about the prophecy was that Tommen would be the valonqar and Myrcella the more beautiful queen, but now tbh I don't see how she can be more beautiful* than her mother even when Cersei is not in the best shape. 

 

*I know that to you and me and us modern people we understand that physical beauty is not everything, a scar doesn't mean you're ugly etc, but in the world of ASOIAF, I think the only understanding of beauty is incredibly physical and perfectionist. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

You're forgetting that Myrcella's face was mutilated, though. 

 

My previous expectation about the prophecy was that Tommen would be the valonqar and Myrcella the more beautiful queen, but now tbh I don't see how she can be more beautiful* than her mother even when Cersei is not in the best shape. 

 

*I know that to you and me and us modern people we understand that physical beauty is not everything, a scar doesn't mean you're ugly etc, but in the world of ASOIAF, I think the only understanding of beauty is incredibly physical and perfectionist. 

She lost an ear.  That's on the side of her face.  You can easily cover it with her long, glorious hair.  And Brienne the Beauty is mentioned all the time as a possibility, so I don't think one scar disqualifies Cersei's mini-me.  

[YunoGasai]

  


First of all I never said a thing about Arya. And I never said anything about siblings. And I don't mean that if somebody is a couple of years younger that makes them more beautiful. It is a fact that when a woman or A MAN ages, they loose their looks. If I look at a picture of myself from when I was ten years younger, guess what, I am better looking in the picture. Sansa. Margery, and Danny are all significantly younger than Cercei, who is clearly aging, and loosing her looks.



If you would actually read what I post, you would already know that I was the one saying that you were putting to much significance in physical beauty. I don't appreciate you putting forth veiled implications towards me, especially considering that you haven't even read what I actually said.

 

 

That's your statement. read it again and what it implied. When i said Catelyn is prettier than Lysa, you said that Lysa had just grown fat and therefore became uglier than Cat.

 

Actually Lysa is said to have gained weight and lost her looks. Anyway, I didn't say that there isn't exceptions, just that in general, between two people considered equally beautiful, the younger one would be thought of as more beautiful.

 

So Cat>Lysa and Eddard<Brandon are the 'exceptions' in your 'general'.

[Darkstream]

Delete

[Darkstream]

That's your statement. read it again and what it implied. When i said Catelyn is prettier than Lysa, you said that Lysa had just grown fat and therefore became uglier than Cat.

I don't need to read it again, I know exactly what I said, and what it implies, and you keep trying to twist my words and implicate a meaning that's not there.
 

So Cat/Lysa and Eddard/Brandon are the 'exceptions' in your 'general'.

Your example of Eddard and Brandon is ridiculous because at the time of Brandon's death they were both very young, and obviously would not be in the stage of their lives where aging is a concern.

And obviously Cat and Lysa would be an exception, as it's stated in the books that Lysa has gained weight and aged poorly, I'm surmising, due to stress and the complications resulting from the abortions and mis-carriages she has had. I'm not sure why you keep focusing on these two as I clearly stated that I was referring to Cersei compared to Sansa, Margery, and Danny, who are all SIGNIFICANTLY younger than Cersei. Are you implying that Lysa, from the grave, is a candidate for the YMBQ?

I have also made it clear that I'm referring to two individuals, NOT JUST WOMEN, who are both already considered to be equally attractive, and that age alone is not a determining factor in the perception of beauty.

I have no idea what your point is, are you trying to imply that people don't age as they get older? If so, I only have to look into my own mirror to prove your assertion wrong. Please do me a favor and actually read my posts before you jump on your high horse and falsely pursue your social justice crusade.

[YunoGasai]

I don't need to read it again, I know exactly what I said, and what it implies, and you keep trying to twist my words and implicate a meaning that's not there.  <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'>Quote<p>So Cat>Lysa and Eddard

I didn't 'twist' your words i just quoted your previous posts. When you said that 

"I feel that because "younger" was also included along with the "beautiful" that this is more of general description of the persons at that time. If you take any two people who are considered equal in terms of looks, the younger one will usually be considered more beautiful. "
  i said that how is that possible when Cat is considered prettier than Lysa? When you said 'Lysa had just turned fat and lost her looks you said that there are 'exceptions'. i decided to exclude them and i presented the Stark Bros instead. Brandon who was considered more good-looking than Eddard and your reply is 'i don't get you?'  Just bec. you're younger doesn't mean you're prettier than the older one. 

[Darkstream]

I didn't 'twist' your words i just quoted your previous posts. When you said that 
"I feel that because "younger" was also included along with the "beautiful" that this is more of general description of the persons at that time. If you take any two people who are considered equal in terms of looks, the younger one will usually be considered more beautiful. "  i said that how is that possible when Cat is considered prettier than Lysa? When you said 'Lysa had just turned fat and lost her looks you said that there are 'exceptions'. i decided to exclude them and i presented the Stark Bros instead. Brandon who was considered more good-looking than Eddard and your reply is 'i don't get you?'  Just bec. you're younger doesn't mean you're prettier than the older one. 

Refer to my edited post.

[YunoGasai]

I don't need to read it again, I know exactly what I said, and what it implies, and you keep trying to twist my words and implicate a meaning that's not there.

As i said, i just quoted your posts.
Your example of Eddard and Brandon is ridiculous because at the time of Brandon's death they were both very young, and obviously would not be in the stage of their lives where aging is a concern.
Well Eddard certainly did not grow more handsome as he aged and as Cat stated, he's still plain of face. So Brandon who had been handsome as a young lad will be ridiculous to assume that he will grow even more handsome than Eddard? 
And obviously Cat and Lysa would be an exception, as it's stated in the books that Lysa has gained weight and aged poorly, I'm surmising, due to stress and the complications resulting from the abortions and mis-carriages she has had. I'm not sure why you keep focusing on these two as I clearly stated that I was referring to Cersei compared to Sansa, Margery, and Danny, who are all SIGNIFICANTLY younger than Cersei. Are you implying that Lysa, from the grave, is a candidate for the YMBQ?
I didn't focus on these two that's why i excluded them and went for the Stark bros. what are you talkin about Lysa being a candidate? WTF? I just use them as an example for your statement that younger means you're more beautiful than older. Anyway Petyr fell for Cat not for Lysa who even tho she's pretty (and acco. 2 u prettier than Cat) did not attracted him the way Cat did.  
I have also made it clear that I'm referring to two individuals, NOT JUST WOMEN, who are both already considered to be equally attractive, and that age alone is not a determining factor in the perception of beauty.
But you said that younger was more beautiful than older wth? that's caring for age as i can see.
I have no idea what your point is, are you trying to imply that people don't age as they get older? If so, I only have to look into my own mirror to prove your assertion wrong. Please do me a favor and actually read my posts before you jump on your high horse and falsely pursue your social justice crusade.

As i said a young age doesn't mean you're prettier than the older one. Didn't you get it? i posted it twice already.

[Darkstream]

ultraviolet@

Well either you are trolling me, or your reading comprehension levels leave a lot to be desired. :bang:

[watcher of the night]

Actually it is not even clear that this "other" must be a female character.

[Darkstream]

Actually it is not even clear that this "other" must be a female character.

Ha, I'm not going to jump into that argument again. I take it you haven't read the entire thread? ;)

[YunoGasai]

ultraviolet@

Well either you are trolling me, or your reading comprehension levels leave a lot to be desired. :bang:

what you still didn't get it? obviously not. is it too hard for u????

[Darkstream]

what you still didn't get it? obviously not. is it too hard for u????

What is there to get? You keep Mis-quoting me, and the rare quote you put forth that is accurate is a couple of words you edited and taken out of a complete sentence I wrote in the sad attempt to put forth a straw man argument. Honestly my three year old niece has a higher comprehension level than you do. If your going to quote me, don't edit what I say and change words to support your ridiculous implications.

[YunoGasai]

What is there to get? You keep Mis-quoting me, and the rare quote you put forth that is accurate is a couple of words you edited and taken out of a complete sentence I wrote in the sad attempt to put forth a straw man argument. Honestly my three year old niece has a higher comprehension level than you do. If your going to quote me, don't edit what I say and change words to support your ridiculous implications.

Wth? i didn't edited your words. I just copy-paste all your 'higher comprehension level' statements. And those ridiculous comprehensions was your doing.