Sansa_Stark Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Cersei loves her children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l3ol3o Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Myth: Only women are forced into political marriages while men have a choice in who they marry.The truth is the majority of noble men and women get married for political reasons. Very few people get to choose who they marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Myth: Only women are forced into political marriages while men have a choice in who they marry.The truth is the majority of noble men and women get married for political reasons. Very few people get to choose who they marry.brandon stark says hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Cersei loves her childrenThat's open to interpretation, I guess. Anyway not what this thread is for. If you have quotes to back up what you're saying then maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 brandon stark says hiDo we know that he chose Cat? It's possible the marriage was part of the Southron Ambitions thing. Equally possible he was given a few options and picked the most desirable. Anyway one guy marrying for love doesn't prove anything. There are lots of examples of arranged marriages. Though I would clarify that the person can usually refuse, ala Blackfish. Though not if they are a minor and their guardian insists it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Do we know that he chose Cat? It's possible the marriage was part of the Southron Ambitions thing. Equally possible he was given a few options and picked the most desirable. Anyway one guy marrying for love doesn't prove anything. There are lots of examples of arranged marriages. Though I would clarify that the person can usually refuse, ala Blackfish. Though not if they are a minor and their guardian insists it would seem.he did not choose cat. Cat was the best and really only option for Brandon as the Tullys are a great house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon-Pale Maiden Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Here's a relatively small thing that I see people sometimes get confused about:Commoners do not get the bastard surnames. The regional surnames are for bastards that have at least one high-born parent. Regional surnames include Snow, Hill, Flowers, Sand, Waters, etc. If you are a bastard with two low born or common born parents, you probably won't have a surname at all. For example, Gendry was not acknowledged by his highborn parent, so he only goes by "Gendry". If he knew he was King Robert's bastard, his name would be Gendry Waters.Side note: If you are a bastard with two highborn parents, you are technically a "great bastard". Edric Storm is a great bastard, for example as he is the son of a Florent and a BaratheonEdit: Great Bastard is used in historical context only to describe the legitimized bastards of Aegon the Unworth who were born of two noble parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashBreaker501 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 R + L = J makes Jon the rightful heir/king of the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Here's a relatively small thing that I see people sometimes get confused about:Commoners do not get the bastard surnames. The regional surnames are for bastards that have at least one high-born parent. Regional surnames include Snow, Hill, Flowers, Sand, Waters, etc. If you are a bastard with two low born or common born parents, you probably won't have a surname at all. For example, Gendry was not acknowledged by his highborn parent, so he only goes by "Gendry". If he knew he was King Robert's bastard, his name would be Gendry Waters.Side note: If you are a bastard with two highborn parents, you are technically a "great bastard". Edric Storm is a great bastard, for example as he is the son of a Florent and a Baratheon.I can't believe I forgot this one. I've had people argue that there are enough examples of commoners with last names to prove otherwise. I think this SSM should put the debate to bed:Jacelyn may not have been knighted until Pyke, but he did have a surname, which implies he had noble/knightly ancestors somewhere back there, though his might well have been a cadet branch fallen low in the world. I don't think this was established either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon-Pale Maiden Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 I can't believe I forgot this one. I've had people argue that there are enough examples of commoners with last names to prove otherwise. I think this SSM should put the debate to bed:Thank you for finding that SSM.If I remember correctly, many commoners seem to add other types of identifiers to their names, such as Ser Illifer the Penniless, Arlen of Pennytree, Jenny of Oldstones, Raff the Sweetling, etc.Also, knights get to choose last names (see the chapter in Dance of Dragons where Ser Rolly Duckfield is explaining choosing his last name) and landed knights have to choose a house name, so there may be descendants of these situations that take these names as well. House Clegane is a good example of this. Now, I have no idea if a bastard of a landed knight (i.e. House Clegane, for example) would get to use one of the regional bastard surnames. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Table8 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Not a myth that is widely believed (at least I hope not), but "Jojen paste". Throughout all the books, mention has been made of how Weirwood trees have sap that resembles blood. Yet some readers actually believe that just because Bran was taken aback at how much like blood the paste looks, that it means it's made of Jojen parts. There's nothing that supports this idea, aside from Jojen being depressed because of a green dream about something bad happening to him on the way back home. Jojen is north of the wall, not in disneyworld... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Now, I have no idea if a bastard of a landed knight (i.e. the house of Clegane, for example) would get to use one of the regional bastard surnames. Anyone know?http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2999/Thus a bastard name like "Snow" or "Rivers" is simultaneously a stigma and a mark of distinction. The whole thing with bastard names is custom, not law.The highborn parent can bestow the usual name, a new one of his/her own devising, or none at all. Most legitimate sons of bastards keep the bastard name, but there are cases where a later generation fiddles with it to remove the taint. Bastard names are a matter of custom, and at the end of the day you can call yourself whatever you want. Of course people would probably ask who your parents were. You would lose the "mark of distinction" part if you can't claim noble parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 "Doran is a coward" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon-Pale Maiden Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Not a myth that is widely believed (at least I hope not), but "Jojen paste". Throughout all the books, mention has been made of how Weirwood trees have sap that resembles blood. Yet some readers actually believe that just because Bran was taken aback at how much like blood the paste looks, that it means it's made of Jojen parts. There's nothing that supports this idea, aside from Jojen being depressed because of a green dream about something bad happening to him on the way back home. Jojen is north of the wall, not in disneyworld...I happen to like the Jojen paste theory and think it has some textual support. However, I won't discuss it here because it is a theory and that is my opinion. This thread is about facts that are commonly misunderstood. You are of course, welcome to your own opinion but it is certainly premature to say this is a myth. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stark Thenextwolf Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Stannis would be a good king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Stannis would be a good kingInteresting opinion, but this is a theory about myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetrarch42 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Here's a relatively small thing that I see people sometimes get confused about:Commoners do not get the bastard surnames. The regional surnames are for bastards that have at least one high-born parent. Regional surnames include Snow, Hill, Flowers, Sand, Waters, etc. If you are a bastard with two low born or common born parents, you probably won't have a surname at all. For example, Gendry was not acknowledged by his highborn parent, so he only goes by "Gendry". If he knew he was King Robert's bastard, his name would be Gendry Waters.Side note: If you are a bastard with two highborn parents, you are technically a "great bastard". Edric Storm is a great bastard, for example as he is the son of a Florent and a Baratheon.Interesting. Are great bastards ever referred to as such in the books, I don't remember any mention of great bastards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Interesting. Are great bastards ever referred to as such in the books, I don't remember any mention of great bastards?The only mention of great bastards I recall are Aegon the Unworthy's bastards. He was a king and legitimized them, so that might have been what made them "great." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon-Pale Maiden Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Interesting. Are great bastards ever referred to as such in the books, I don't remember any mention of great bastards?I hope someone else chimes in on this, because now that I think on it, I may be wrong. The great bastards were first introduced when Aegon the Unworthy legitimized his bastard children with noble mothers. I know that is the definition as it applied to Aegon's bastards, but now I'm not positive if it still is in common use to refer to children born of two noble parents. Perhaps that was used in a historical context only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Flame Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 WOW would get publushed in 2014...Ow, my naive optimism (yeswecanyeswecanyeswecan) *smiles shakily* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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