Small questions v.10014

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Doesn't Varys-as-Rugen also visit Ned in the Black Cells?

[Robin the Mighty]

How is it probable, but not likely? did you mean possible?

As for the question, it seems likely to me that Cersei and her cousins had been doing this for sometime, but Cersei took further then ever, and luckly got him killed. As far as killing someone, this isn't the most likely outcome from giving someone took much wine. That of course would be stumbling around the woods and/or passing out. I think if Tywin had been part of it, it would have been a real plan.

Yes, I am sorry, kind ser.

I tried the search, but could only find "we know Rugen the goaler was varys".

I saw it mentioned in another thread, could someone elaborate? How do we know he was Rugen? Is there a thread discussing this?

The (very plausible, IMO) theory says head gaoler Rugen was actually Varys in disguise. Mostly it's based on two facts: 1) physical similarity between Varys and Rugen and 2) Varys' mummer skills.

ETA: and 3) Rennifer says Rugen was rarely around. If Rugen is Varys, Varys would be too busy being Master of Whisperers and plotting with Illyrio to wear Rugen's disguise.

:agree:

[RumHam]

Also I think Martin confirmed it in one of the DVD commentaries.

[Aderyn the Sly]

So I found something interesting while looking for a different SSM:

On the 5 year gap this has probably already been discussed before, but here goes. George said that he was writing ADwD and was writing the flashbacks (he confirmed that they would have been flashbacks) and then he realized that he couldn't just skip things like Myrcella being crowned and the resulting dornish problems, for example. Originally he had wanted to skip the 5 years to make the kids older. But he said he realized that he was being impatient, and that those 5 years had too much important stuff to skim over.

I understand that many think she will be crowned because of Maggy the frog's prophecy (gold their crowns, and gold their shrouds) but should this be taken as evidence that Tommen will die and she will be Queen? It was from several years ago (before Feast was even published) but this quote makes it seem that pretty explicitly to me that that's the plan.

[Squire to Ser Pounce]

This is driving me nuts at this point...

In ADWD The Blind Girl, Arya tells TKOM that she knows he is the one who was hitting her. Cut to rafters-cat. And it seems the logic conclusion is that she IDed him via cat. Only...

The staff fighting lesson in the morgue happened the day before. After the duel she resumes work on the bodies, gets glamored by the Waif and goes to Pynto's tavern where she is quickly approached by this cat.

The next morning she tells her three things to TKOM and thinks to herself about the rafters cat who'd followed her home from Pynto's last night. So how can the cat be her mechanism for IDing the man who attacked her in the morgue? The cat wasn't there then.

What am I missing here?

I think the main clue is that TKOM had his stick with him again, which Arya knocks out of his hands during after stating he's the one who hit her before. That's the only indication I could find. The possible mix-up of the chronology of the events led me to re-read those sections a few times. Her spotting him with the stick again was all I could come up with.

[Dr. Pepper]

So I found something interesting while looking for a different SSM:

I understand that many think she will be crowned because of Maggy the frog's prophecy (gold their crowns, and gold their shrouds) but should this be taken as evidence that Tommen will die and she will be Queen? It was from several years ago (before Feast was even published) but this quote makes it seem that pretty explicitly to me that that's the plan.

Seems he was talking about Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella, which resulted in a missing ear and Dornish problems.

[Squire to Ser Pounce]

I understand that many think she will be crowned because of Maggy the frog's prophecy (gold their crowns, and gold their shrouds) but should this be taken as evidence that Tommen will die and she will be Queen? It was from several years ago (before Feast was even published) but this quote makes it seem that pretty explicitly to me that that's the plan.

Tommen wouldn't have to be dead for Dorne to crown Myrcella. Arienne's plan didn't involve Tommen's death: She was going to crown Myrcella (according to Dornish laws, since females can be heirs and Myrcella is older than Tommen) and try to take advantage of any shenanigans that ensued.

*Aaaaaand ninja'd.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Doesn't Varys-as-Rugen also visit Ned in the Black Cells?

Yes, but he's not named as Rugen, just described as Rugen is described.

[Aderyn the Sly]

Seems he was talking about Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella, which resulted in a missing ear and Dornish problems.

Tommen wouldn't have to be dead for Dorne to crown Myrcella. Arienne's plan didn't involve Tommen's death: She was going to crown Myrcella (according to Dornish laws, since females can be heirs and Myrcella is older than Tommen) and try to take advantage of any shenanigans that ensued.

*Aaaaaand ninja'd.

This was my first thought as well, but she never actually crowned Myrcella. She just ran off with her for a night and that was it, no one outside the circle of Martells, Hotah, and Arianna's allies even know what happened. Unless in the original version with the 5 year gap Arianna's plan succeeded a little better than it did in the version that was kept in Feast. :dunno: Just thought it was interesting.

[Asha Greyjoy:Feminist Icon]

I think the main clue is that TKOM had his stick with him again, which Arya knocks out of his hands during after stating he's the one who hit her before. That's the only indication I could find. The possible mix-up of the chronology of the events led me to re-read those sections a few times. Her spotting him with the stick again was all I could come up with.

Surely there are more than two sticks in the House of Black & White? And even if the only two belong to Arya and TKOM, she could have conceivably learned this from her other sense awareness...no cat needed.

And so it remains a mystery to me. Made more mysterious by the fact that everyone (including in The Blind Girl ADWD read) seems to interpret it in the "Arya knew cause cat-eye warging!" I was feeling super super lost, and I'm a hyper-note-taking reader. Thanks for confirming that maybe it's not just me?

[Varamyr Sixskins]

Has anyone realized the Gregor is an anagram for George?

[mindchap]

This was my first thought as well, but she never actually crowned Myrcella. She just ran off with her for a night and that was it, no one outside the circle of Martells, Hotah, and Arianna's allies even know what happened. Unless in the original version with the 5 year gap Arianna's plan succeeded a little better than it did in the version that was kept in Feast. :dunno: Just thought it was interesting.

I think what GRRM was talking about was just that whole subplot in Dorne. He just refers to it as Myrcella's crowning because it's simpler to say than, Arianne's failed attempt to make Myrcella a queen, resulting in the lose of an ear and strained ties to the Lannisters. I don't think he was going to actually make Myrcella a queen during the gap, just have her show up scarred and make references to it but there was too much to tell to leave it out.

[not in the face]

Does the hand of the king have the power to remove bastard status from children or is that exclusively the king's power?

[Squire to Ser Pounce]

Surely there are more than two sticks in the House of Black & White? And even if the only two belong to Arya and TKOM, she could have conceivably learned this from her other sense awareness...no cat needed.

And so it remains a mystery to me. Made more mysterious by the fact that everyone (including in The Blind Girl ADWD read) seems to interpret it in the "Arya knew cause cat-eye warging!" I was feeling super super lost, and I'm a hyper-note-taking reader. Thanks for confirming that maybe it's not just me?

Definitely a fuzzy topic. And I'm more thinking that perhaps TKOM didn't usually carry a stick, so when Arya cat-spies him with one, she makes a risky guess (that looks totally badass on the page)? Since I want the final equation to make sense and be awesome, I'm willing to fill some maybe-gaps myself. But yeah...you're not the only one.

[Arya kiddin']

Does the hand of the king have the power to remove bastard status from children or is that exclusively the king's power?

I don't think there has ever been a case in the history where this might've happened. So we don't know. My belief is no.

[Squire to Ser Pounce]

Does the hand of the king have the power to remove bastard status from children or is that exclusively the king's power?

I don't think there has ever been a case in the history where this might've happened. So we don't know. My belief is no.

I'm with Arya kiddin' on this - seems like a thing only the king can pull off. We've seen Tommen stamp the paper making Ramsay into a Bolton and Roose's heir and we've seen Robb talking about legitimizing Jon. From history there's also Aegon IV legitimizing all his bastards. Seems like a monarch-only power.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Yes, but he's not named as Rugen, just described as Rugen is described.

IIRC when Jaime heard that Rugen was missing he thought that they will never find him, meaning Varys

[Squire Dalbridge]

I have a question about English language I've been wondering, as a non-native. I tried to find a thread within the Literature-forum, but couldn't find any. Sorry, if this is wrong thread.

So, do you really use the word mummer the way they do in Westeros? The mummer's farce etc.

I now know very well what GRRM means with that, thanks to the extensive usage of the word. But at start I was little puzzled, cause my web-dictionary knew only one meaning of the word, which was the same than "mimic"...

[Black Wolf Smith]

I have a question about English language I've been wondering, as a non-native. I tried to find a thread within the Literature-forum, but couldn't find any. Sorry, if this is wrong thread.

So, do you really use the word mummer the way they do in Westeros? The mummer's farce etc.

I now know very well what GRRM means with that, thanks to the extensive usage of the word. But at start I was little puzzled, cause my web-dictionary knew only one meaning of the word, which was the same than "mimic"...

IDT anyone would use "mummers" in a sentence. Ever. I basically knew what it meant by the wording around it, much like mayhaps.

[TheCube]

Does the hand of the king have the power to remove bastard status from children or is that exclusively the king's power?

I would say yes, but only in so much as they "speak with the kings voice". So the real authority rests with the king (stamp, stamp) but the decision can (and was) made by the hand.

I have a question about English language I've been wondering, as a non-native. I tried to find a thread within the Literature-forum, but couldn't find any. Sorry, if this is wrong thread.

So, do you really use the word mummer the way they do in Westeros? The mummer's farce etc.

I now know very well what GRRM means with that, thanks to the extensive usage of the word. But at start I was little puzzled, cause my web-dictionary knew only one meaning of the word, which was the same than "mimic"...

It's an old word, I've never personally heard ir used outside of literature.