Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I mean he was born in the Riverlands and lived as a Targ bastard and later as a Legit Targ. I know his mother was a Blackwood but he in KL alot so he must have worshipped the Seven. When he went North do you think he converted to the Old Gods or is he just using the COTF to amplify his power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I am pretty certain he became Old God... That would convert anyone :)Now, I am not sure... Something must have happened so he went North and found COTF cave. I believe he had this dual religion beliefs like Robb or Sansa, respecting both old and new Gods. But, I can't be certain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I do think, that he lived his first years with his mother and was raised believing in the Old Gods, since his mother was a Blackwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornish Whine Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I think the Blackwoods (his mother's family) are of the first men and worship the old gods. Their sigil is a weirwood tree full of ravens, no? So he likely took tohis mother's gods once he realized that they hold true power. Or should I say 'visceral' power - as the 7 may hold some power, but we have a hard time seeing or grasping it.ETA - semi-ninja'd by Mrs_Darcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I think he always followed them, but was never really devout. Following the Old Gods could be one of the things that made the smallfolk not like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I think he's always followed the Old Gods since he was half Blackwood (and they worship the Old Gods) and he is very much like them, the red eyes and white skin and hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 And even if he didn't, he sort of became one, so that ought to convert anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I do think, that he lived his first years with his mother and was raised believing in the Old Gods, since his mother was a BlackwoodThis seems to be the going theory and I see no reason to discount it at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The old gods are not real, it was the greenseers that saw through the eyes of the weirwood trees. So I guess Bloodraven himself is the only remaining Old God. And now there is Bran too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The old gods are not real, it was the greenseers that saw through the eyes of the weirwood trees. So I guess Bloodraven himself is the only remaining Old God. And now there is Bran too.So the greenseers sent the 6 direwolf pups to the Stark kids? Did Bloodraven do it? Did he warg into the pregnant mother direwolf and take her South to protect the Starks?I'm not convinced the greenseers and the Old Gods are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 So the greenseers sent the 6 direwolf pups to the Stark kids? Did Bloodraven do it? Did he warg into the pregnant mother direwolf and take her South to protect the Starks?I'm not convinced the greenseers and the Old Gods are the same.Yes I do think Bloodraven sent the direwolf south to protect Bran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yes I do think Bloodraven sent the direwolf south to protect BranI'm not disputing it, but is there any evidence for this? Also, if Bloodraven was warging the mother direwolf, what happened to his soul when the stag killed the wolf? Did it jump into the stag?Maybe Bloodraven seems out of it in the cave because his soul is running around the North in a stag!But maybe that stag was killed for food by the Northman that Bran & company meet on their way to the wall, and Bloodraven warged into him so he could help Bran.The warging rules are confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I'm not disputing it, but is there any evidence for this? Also, if Bloodraven was warging the mother direwolf, what happened to his soul when the stag killed the wolf? Did it jump into the stag?Maybe Bloodraven seems out of it in the cave because his soul is running around the North in a stag!But maybe that stag was killed for food by the Northman that Bran & company meet on their way to the wall, and Bloodraven warged into him so he could help Bran.The warging rules are confusing.I'm not saying that he warged the direwolf. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, maybe he did initially and then warged the stag. I honestly don't know. I just think that Bloodraven sent the direwolves south. And no there is no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I'm not disputing it, but is there any evidence for this? Also, if Bloodraven was warging the mother direwolf, what happened to his soul when the stag killed the wolf? Did it jump into the stag?Maybe Bloodraven seems out of it in the cave because his soul is running around the North in a stag!But maybe that stag was killed for food by the Northman that Bran & company meet on their way to the wall, and Bloodraven warged into him so he could help Bran.The warging rules are confusing.Maybe the rules for a Greenseer are different to that of a warg/skinchanger. BR may not have the same problem wrt his soul as someone like Varamyr. Greenseers seem to be far more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 On ASOIAF, we've 5 out of 7 books. Of DnE novellas we have 3 out of maybe 10-12. We still don't have enough information on how BR winds up on the wall, and how he becomes the 3EC or an old god. Future novellas may clear that up, though I do think his blackwood ancestry must've something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys_The Transformed Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Maybe the rules for a Greenseer are different to that of a warg/skinchanger. BR may not have the same problem wrt his soul as someone like Varamyr. Greenseers seem to be far more powerful.Exactly..... Greenseer is not affected at Soul level. Greenseer is only a WATCHER, A WITNESS, so a Stag dies, then Stag dies, but Greenseer only WATCHES IT . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The Blackwoods follow the Old Gods, Jaime mentions it in Dance. I think it's kind of neat that the first appearance of Bloodraven in the novellas is camping in the center of a ring of Weirwood stumps, then we first encounter him in the novels and he is a Weirwood. :)Inside the castle walls, however, a bit of the forest still remained. House Blackwood kept the oldgods, and worshiped as the First Men had in the days before the Andals came to Westeros. Some of thetrees in their godswood were said to be as old as Raventree’s square towers, especially the heart tree, aweirwood of colossal size whose upper branches could be seen from leagues away, like bony fingersscratching at the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The Blackwoods follow the Old Gods, Jaime mentions it in Dance. I think it's kind of neat that the first appearance of Bloodraven in the novellas is camping in the center of a ring of Weirwood stumps, then we first encounter him in the novels and he is a Weirwood. :)Exactly what I believe as well. His connection to the old Gods would be because of his Blackwood ancestry. Or maybe Shierra just liked trees. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I think he has always followed the Old Gods, with his mother being a blackwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahgh Neqaj Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 A more basic question: Are the old Gods actually Gods that can be followed? There is not much in form of theology, no priests, no rituals, no holy texts, just a bunch of spirits with arcane knowledge, the occasional warg and the very rare greenseers. The magic seems to be rooted in bloodmagic and thus fundamentally similar to Valyrian magic despite the obvious ice-fire difference. The three taboos against incest, kinslaying and slavery are not unique to the followers of the old gods either as the followers of the seven have them as well. So again we face the difficulty to distinguish whether that's just a universal value common to many people in Planetos or whether it's something inherently tied to the "Old God" magic.If you assume that Bloodraven never was a devoted follower of the seven and that his blackwood family taught him how to use his magic talents which are - due to First of Men/Old God backstory - commonly referenced in the OId God setting does that make him a follower of the Old Gods? Or just an atheist who's using his arcane talents? Does talking to greenseer spirits that live in weirwood trees make you a follower of the Old Gods or just someone who's interacting with a "real", arcane phenomenon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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