capo51 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 For starters, I've read all five books now, but I started out only watching the show (reading the first two books in between seasons 2&3, the rest afterwards). In season 1 I liked Jaime a lot. He quickly became one of my favorites and I assumed just from the first season that he was a fan-favorite. But now I realize there are people who still hate him even after books 3 and 4.I guess I fell so in love with his personality (his wit, his charm, his sense of humor) that I could overlook his not-so-great deeds. Maybe it has something to do with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's performance, but I always got the feeling there was more to him than he let on. I predicted that he was very misunderstood and a better person than we thought.Did anyone else feel this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn of Sunspear Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 He's definetly on a redemption arc.In the beginning he was a witty ass, whose best known action was killing his king. But you find out later that he had a GOOD reason for killing Aerys.Add to that all his humbling experiences, and you do indeed have one complex individual.That being said, I dont really see him as an enigma. You know what his motivations are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 He is very misunderstood and a better person than we thought. But that's like "drier than water". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 He is a complex person, not wholly good or evil. He has done some great things but that doesn't change the evil things he has done(attempting to kill Bran and looking to maim Arya) and e will have to answer for his crimes. But on the whole I like him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I read the books before I ever watched the show. I hated Jaime and he is now one of my all time favorite characters. Through most of the first two books, I wanted him dead, beheaded by Robb or someone after he was captured. I did notice the kindness that Tyrion always mentioned he had, but hell.....Hitler was nice to his dog til he poisoned him, too, so it didnt' hold LOTS of weight with me. (I know, Hitler analogies are bad, I should watch out for that).It was the drunken, honest, insightful and oh so revealing conversation that Jaime had with Cat that made me sit up and take notice. I was very intrigued, he seemed more finally than the Kingslayer and the man who pushed Bran out of the window. I would always forget that even Bran's POV noted that the man who pushed him didn't seem happy about it. I think the idea that he admits he's only been with Cersei even helped to make him understandable, human.From then on....to ASOS, he was first just a quick, comic ball of energy and I was horrified to even enjoy him, LOL But, I surrendered, I gave up, and just learned who he was, who he started to become, and I'm very interested to see where he will be as the story unfolds.I give up, and the series to me, seems to be about NOT taking one family's side, so....that helps me, too. He is one of the most enjoyable characters POVs to read and I like him, I give up thinking that it's bad to like him. No one keeps track of all the shit in his own bucket better than Jaime, anyway. Granted, it's funny, how it does it, but he does keep track of his sins, he'd be the first to admit, he's not the most moral of men, or hasn't been. He knows he went wrong along the way, and at least he's trying to do things in a better fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Valicious Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I like him in a strange way... He's definitely done terrible things that should make me hate him but he can be very compassionate at times and now that he starts to see his faults, it's harder not to like him. He's like Lancelot, a knight of great talent and potential who just threw it away for love, he's the saint and the absolute sinner. While Guinevere had seen the light and sought redemption I doubt we'll get that from Cercei.That said I wonder if he'll get his Galahad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I like his character, but I dont think of him as a "good person". Far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry Stark Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'm a huge fan, but many people still hate him, understandably, for trying to kill Bran. He did cripple one of the main characters after all. Add to that killing Ned's s men (Jory :crying: ), and the fact that his incestuous affair with Cersei leads to huge succession issues, contributing to the war, he will always have his haters. The bad acts that he's committed can never truly be atoned for, and I would argue that he hadn't adequately demonstrated remorse for trying to kill Bran. If this were real life, I would want him locked up for good; however, since it's fiction, I'm a fan. He's witty, interesting, complicated, and he's starting to do more good than bad ... at least for now. Although he gets a lot of hatred, believe me, he has many fans as well. Every other week it seems as though there is some apologist thread trying to suggest that pushing Bran was ok. The way I see it though is that it's ok to like Jaime, and there's no need to excuse his bad behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin the Mighty Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I disagree with you, there are many people that really enjoy jamie;s redemption arc and him as a character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSnow House Stark Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jaime's POV chapters have become one of my favorites. Prior to that, eh, kill him. He still deserves some type of punishment for Bran, no matter what.Jaime, be a man and trade your white cloak for the black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphnaerys Seaworth Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I am with you on this one.At first I was like "What an @hole!"...Throwing a 7 y old child from a tower?Really?But now he is one of my favourite characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphnaerys Seaworth Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jaime's POV chapters have become one of my favorites. Prior to that, eh, kill him. He still deserves some type of punishment for Bran, no matter what.Jaime, be a man and trade your white cloak for the black.I think he already got it.He got his hand chopped off.The very hand he pushed Bran with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 GRRM gets commended for Jaime's arc, and he rightly should. He's a deeply flawed character whose perception by fans has been altered by both gradual reveals about his past and actions he's taken to try and be a better man. That being said, the overwhelming amount of love the character gets is sometimes galling, particularly since I think his supporters hold him in much higher regard than his creator. That's not to say everyone needs to follow an author's exact opinions on everything, but I think he is sometimes placed on a pedestal that's as unrealistic as demonizing him turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jaime's an arsehole, but he won many over us over with his funny POV and his improving sense of morality. He's now one of my favourites, miles ahead of Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry Stark Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 GRRM gets commended for Jaime's arc, and he rightly should. He's a deeply flawed character whose perception by fans has been altered by both gradual reveals about his past and actions he's taken to try and be a better man. That being said, the overwhelming amount of love the character gets is sometimes galling, particularly since I think his supporters hold him in much higher regard than his creator. That's not to say everyone needs to follow an author's exact opinions on everything, but I think he is sometimes placed on a pedestal that's as unrealistic as demonizing him turned out to be.I agree, and I do really like him. It's a testament to Martin's abilities at characterization to convince so many readers to do such a 180 when it comes to a character. I hated him, wanted him dead, etc, until his conversation with Catelyn. At that point, I realized that he was more than just diabolically evil. As the story has progressed, I've liked him more and more, particularly his interaction with Brienne. What irks me is that, at times, I feel like some people want to dismiss his previous crimes, or make excuses for them. My point is, what's wrong with saying the guy has committed horrible acts, but that he's changed for the better, so I like him now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry Stark Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think he already got it.He got his hand chopped off.The very hand he pushed Bran with.Bran can't walk, have sex, be a knight, etc all because he saw Jaime committing incest and treason. It sucks to lose a sword hand if you're a knight in your thirties; Bran lost a lot more than just that as an innocent child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think he already got it.He got his hand chopped off.The very hand he pushed Bran with.It wasn't any type of equal punishment for trying to kill a 7yr old child which resulted in that child losing BOTH uses of his legs and possibly his ability to reproduce IMO. Losing one hand is not equal to what Bran has lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo51 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think he would have undergone his "transformation" even without the loss of his hand. We see him show a glipse of his compassionate side with Brienne. I think the loss of his hand just sped up that change abruptly. I also don't think of it as a change to someone else, but rather a change to who Jaime truly is. During his years in the Kingsguard, he learned to "go away inside" to deal with the Mad King's atrocities. So when we see him in season 1 / book 1, we're seeing the shell he built around himself that disappears at the loss of his hand.I don't know. Maybe I'm way too biased. I feel really sorry for Jaime because of his past and sacrifices he made to be with Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Capo51, I also started with the show and liked the Jamie character. I think they showed more that Jamie actions, with killing the Mad King, had a possible morale basis instead oppritunism or betwithrayal of an oath. I will point to the scene with Jaime, Robert, and Barristan. In the book, we are dealing with POVs and outside of Tyrion there is no one who is favorable to Jaime (yes a pov from a 8 year old getting toss out the window by him will do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphnaerys Seaworth Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Bran can't walk, have sex, be a knight, etc all because he saw Jaime committing incest and treason. It sucks to lose a sword hand if you're a knight in your thirties; Bran lost a lot more than just that as an innocent child.It wasn't any type of equal punishment for trying to kill a 7yr old child which resulted in that child losing BOTH uses of his legs and possibly his ability to reproduce IMO.Losing one hand is not equal to what Bran has lostOh guys please don't misunderstand me...I didn't say if I believed the punishment he got was enough for him.I never said that a chopped off hand is any where NEAR as being equal to never being able to walk again.I was just commenting on the fact that he got at least some kind of punishment.A bit ironic too, he got the very hand who did the deed chopped off.Edit:Mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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