I'm coming around to Stannis

[aceluby]

I'm about 1/2 way through ASOS and I'm starting to appreciate the Stan man a bit more on my reread. He's a great grey character. He's smart and unwavering in his sense of duty, which is both a benefit and his ultimate downfall. I think he feels guilty about Renly, but honestly doesn't believe he had anything to do with it (though Davos does...).

The moment that turned it for me was when Florent wanted to attack the castle and instead of going ahead with it Stannis led him to believe he was for it and figuring out when would be the best time to do so. However, we find out later Stannis was never truly considering it because those people had nothing to do with the traitor. I respect that and see that his sense of justice is right on the mark. In the same chapter it's very obvious that he will always choose blood over duty in the end and would never have burnt Edric. He might have led Mel to believe so, but just like Florent I don't think it was truly under consideration.

With that being said, while I like the character and find him interesting, I still don't think he would be a good king. Like I said earlier, I think his sense of duty and justice would be his downfall. His being king would bring punishment and blood across Westeros for years, which would hurt the very people he's trying to rule. Couple that with the fact that I think burning people as punishment is cruel and unusual, and that I'm not a fan of burning other people's religious spaces (don't care if they were 'his', it's not a sign of a good king), I think a good king has a sense of mercy when it doesn't directly benefit you. As Stannis says, Robert had this ability and was a big reason why he was able to secure his kingdom, the way Stannis rules breeds traitors, even he acknowledges this and I don't think there are enough people loyal to Stannis to keep the 7 kingdoms peaceful. If he could do it I'd be 100% behind him, but he can't, it's just not in his character and never will be.

So in short, I like Stannis, I like his decision making process and find it unique and interesting, especially w/out a POV. However, despite all those good qualities I think he's made some very poor decisions, continues to make poor decisions, and as he has said, the good does not wipe out the bad. As bad of a loss as BW was, I still don't think he's paid fully for his mistakes.

This reread has been the best reread I've ever done. Really appreciating all the intricacies in all the characters and the little things that make each of them unique, and like in life, nobody is perfect.

[Northbound]

Welcome to the club. :cheers:

What the hell, took you soooooooooo long?

[Undead Ned With No Head]

Huzzah

[TheMaxx]

I liked Stannis all the way, thought he was a cool sort of warlord when he first came to us, then started seeing he was more than 'just another King'. Started really loving his story and his character and now that Theon's in his chapters, well, good stuff Stannis.

[E-Ro]

Interesting. I think many people come around to him on rereads honestly since yes, at first he is hard to like. Not much else to add now, but I think this thread warrants a longer response so I will have more to say later.

Btw, welcome aboard aceluby, for the night is dark and full of terrors.

[MotherAnduin]

You will see the light soon, child.

[( Bloodraven )]

I agree with most of your points in the OP except I think he'd make a good and just king.

[uneloom]

Stannis, Tywin & Roose make lovely "dry humor triplet".

[Señor de la Tormenta]

The king who still fucking cared!!!

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Good!

[StannisBamfatheon]

I think Stannis is really underrated as a "good" person. Very grey character yes but I think more often than not he does the right thing. The Celtigar plan, raising Davos from nothing, coming to the wall, etc... Even subtle things like when Davos reveals he let Edric go Stannis isn't even angry with him he just replies rather sadly "Was loyalty too much to ask?" Stannis is like Westeros' girl next door man. The perfect ruler in every way right under their very nose if they would just accept him.

[Arya kiddin']

I see there have been new additions to the Brah club. Good for you OP. :)

For me Stannis is the best King Westeros can have, despite his flaws. Nobody's perfect people. Jon is the hero of the series I know, but discounting him, Stannis is the one with the most humane flaws in the series amongst all who are contesting for the throne. Even if he sits the iron throne for a second in the series, I know I'll cheer for him.

And yes, as somebody mentioned - the King who still fucking cared.

[FloridaAg]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Yuck

[Lady Isobel]

I liked him from the beginning but I like him more with every book I read. I think he would make a fair and capable king who could keep the realm under control (unlike Robert) if not a very popular one -due to his rigidness. The way things stand in Westeros right now Stannis could be exactly what the people need to help them recover from the recent war and the impending winter.

[aceluby]

Like I said, I think his character is more interesting than I first gave him credit for. Like Tyrion, Jaime, Dany, and some of the other characters I find most interesting I'm not going to justify the atrocities they've committed and will embrace them as part of their character and what makes them so compelling. I like the principle that Stannis stands for, however I can't agree with his delivery, which is why I'd never support him to be King. Like he says, the way he rules breeds traitors, and I agree with his assessment and think it will ultimately be his undoing.

[The Storm King]

I like stannis but I think none of the present contenders are fit to be king :( they all have their flaws and pretty major ones at that

Dany is a useless queen as seen from her fiasco at mereen

Stannis listens to Mel too much and is too strict and I'm afraid he's not too popular with the masses

My only hope is aegon

[tommystinker]

Stannis, stannis, stannis

One of my favorite moments of reading the books.

I agree he wouldnt be a perfect king but is probably the best option. The fact he has Davos and Mel like the devil and angel means he makes well considered decisions.

[Lord Varys]

Sacrificing Edric was really under consideration, that much is obvious in the text. And Stannis would have done it had he convinced himself that it could work. But I'm not sure he could have done it. He still is not fully on board of the whole Azor Ahai idea.

As to Stannis as king:

He would be great. Especially now, after his war experiences. But even back in ACoK we can see how pragmatic he is. He did not punish or execute any of the traitors who defected to him after Renly's death. Had he taken King's Landing, most of the Lannisters would have been executed, including Cersei's children (the same is true for the members of the Small Council) but I'm quite sure he would have pardoned most, if not all, of Tywin's bannermen who had taken up arms against him. They did only follow their liege lord's command.

And Robb may have been able to keep his life and the North as well, had he bent the knee and given up his crown.

If Stannis had the chance to consolidate his rule he may have even gained a group of stalwart and fervent loyalists. It's obvious that he would surrounded himself with men like Davos, and that sort really seems to like to follow a guy like him.

[Berkilak]

The perfect ruler in every way right under their very nose if they would just accept him.

If they had from the beginning, perhaps he'd have been perfect. But they didn't. And his very black and white sense of what is just would have repercussions for his current opponents, even if they were to bow to him this very moment. Repercussions that probably wouldn't be easily accepted or forgotten.

[aceluby]

Sacrificing Edric was really under consideration, that much is obvious in the text. And Stannis would have done it had he convinced himself that it could work. But I'm not sure he could have done it. He still is not fully on board of the whole Azor Ahai idea.

As to Stannis as king:

He would be great. Especially now, after his war experiences. But even back in ACoK we can see how pragmatic he is. He did not punish or execute any of the traitors who defected to him after Renly's death. Had he taken King's Landing, most of the Lannisters would have been executed, including Cersei's children (the same is true for the members of the Small Council) but I'm quite sure he would have pardoned most, if not all, of Tywin's bannermen who had taken up arms against him. They did only follow their liege lord's command.

And Robb may have been able to keep his life and the North as well, had he bent the knee and given up his crown.

If Stannis had the chance to consolidate his rule he may have even gained a group of stalwart and fervent loyalists. It's obvious that he would surrounded himself with men like Davos, and that sort really seems to like to follow a guy like him.

I disagree, I think he was listening to Mel, but was never truly considering it, just like that attack that Florent wanted to do. He was just waiting for someone w/ sense to give it to him straight, which is not a huge plus in the 'Stannis would be a good king' dept IMO.

I also think that the only reason he didn't execute those that defected from Renly is that he needed them. If he didn't need them or their armies he would have executed them for being traitors, just like everybody else. That's another reason I can't support him being king despite liking his character and development. He claims to be just and fair, yet because he needs the lords and they ended up bending the knee he's willing to pardon them, but he burns his brother in law, low born people for lesser crimes, and allowed his captured lords to be burnt. The good does not wipe out the bad.