[BOOK SPOILERS] Predictions for TV series: Season by Season

[protar]

you are proposing elimination of his visions, which is the entire reason he is cosmically important.

That amounts to cutting him.

I'm not proposing cutting all of his visions, I just don't want Robert's Rebellion exposition every other episode. I'd prefer to keep things pretty much at the level they are in the books, with that one long montage of various visions, and probably in the final season the R+L=J reveal (if that's how it's revealed in the books).

ETA: Also I disagree that Bran's primary purpose is his visions. Imo that will be his warging powers. I think that his visions will be used to unveil some secrets about the Dawn Age, which works because they are actually relevant to what Bran is doing - being used by the CotF as a weapon against the Great Other. Obviously in the books he won't be used to give us flashbacks to the rebellion or other recent events (except possibly R+L=J) because we have already seen all those events in the books.

[Cas Stark]

Well, I doubt he will be a prominent figure. But they can't only have him in one or two episodes...the show audience doesn't know what he's doing there, or who Bloodraven is. They will have to have that, and showing Bran learning how to see into the past, present and future will be part of his story. Showing flashbacks from his POV is the best and LEAST clunky way of doing it, IMO.

I would think they have to be VERY careful w/flashbacks, althought it would be a nice way to get Sean Bean back....flashbacks of Lyanna or stuff from way back...could be very confusing to the audience. Maybe ambiguous future visions, kind of like what they did with Dany at the House of the Undying, and some convo's with Gandalf the Grey of the Weirwoods and then whispering to Theon, maybe a convo with Meera and elf girl, that should do it. I don't know what else they have to work with.

[Hippocras]

I would think they have to be VERY careful w/flashbacks, althought it would be a nice way to get Sean Bean back....flashbacks of Lyanna or stuff from way back...could be very confusing to the audience. Maybe ambiguous future visions, kind of like what they did with Dany at the House of the Undying, and some convo's with Gandalf the Grey of the Weirwoods and then whispering to Theon, maybe a convo with Meera and elf girl, that should do it. I don't know what else they have to work with.

I have the feeling there might be something to find in the caves too. So some cave exploration.

[FalseKnight]

I think it's too late to implement flashbacks now without it being jarring. Honestly they should have had them in from the start imo - I don't think many of the casual viewers understand much of what happened in the Rebellion, and flashbacks would really have helped with that. The extra casting might have stretched the budget (though only a few extra cast members would be needed in all honesty) but D+D have admitted themselves that they budgeted S1 ineptly, so it would have been possible.

The leap of logic from poor budgeting to the possibility of shooting whatever flashbacks would be necessary is massive. We have no idea how much money they could have used for flashbacks, and we no less about how the flash backs would have cost. We want to see these things because we love the books and the show, but we don't know enough about the process to honestly condemn these decisions.

[protar]

The leap of logic from poor budgeting to the possibility of shooting whatever flashbacks would be necessary is massive. We have no idea how much money they could have used for flashbacks, and we no less about how the flash backs would have cost. We want to see these things because we love the books and the show, but we don't know enough about the process to honestly condemn these decisions.

The implication from D+D's comments was that had they been more experienced they would have had the budget for some major battles in S1. So that's a lot of money. Plus we know they had already filmed a couple of flashbacks and I think the reason for cutting them was more artistic than budgetary. If I could go back in time and exchange those "two people in a room talking" scenes for some flashbacks I'd do so in a heartbeat.

[FalseKnight]

you are proposing elimination of his visions, which is the entire reason he is cosmically important.

That amounts to cutting him.

No offense but that's not what the poster suggested.

[Hippocras]

No offense but that's not what the poster suggested.

They said that Bran should have very few scenes and episodes and should not be used as a means to show the key events of the past.

Very few scenes and episodes and not showing visions basically means making Bran an irrelevant side show with no connection left at all to the rest of the series.

So...there are these people in the capital fighting for power,

and while they are doing that there are threats coming from the East and the North

...and there is a kid in a tree talking to an old guy.

[sj4iy]

...and there is a kid in a tree talking to an old guy.

...who was able to have visions before finding the old guy, but no longer does because...reasons.

Sounds exciting!

[FalseKnight]

The implication from D+D's comments was that had they been more experienced they would have had the budget for some major battles in S1. So that's a lot of money. Plus we know they had already filmed a couple of flashbacks and I think the reason for cutting them was more artistic than budgetary. If I could go back in time and exchange those "two people in a room talking" scenes for some flashbacks I'd do so in a heartbeat.

Even reediting the episodes to include flashbacks they already filmed would have consumed money and man hours, so we simply do not know whether it would have been feasible. Plus, those scenes you would cut are some of the most important scenes to viewers who never read the books. Flashbacks to the rebellion would have killed the show.

[protar]

They said that Bran should have very few scenes and episodes and should not be used as a means to show the key events of the past.

Very few scenes and episodes and not showing visions basically means making Bran an irrelevant side show with no connection left at all to the rest of the series.

So...there are these people in the capital fighting for power,

and while they are doing that there are threats coming from the East and the North

...and there is a kid in a tree talking to an old guy.

Cutting down does not equal eliminating. Bran should have visions, but they should be kept to the same level as in the books. At the moment Bran is still "in training" so he doesn't have much to do. He should be in 4 or 5 episodes like he was this season and I'd rather more of that was exploring BR's backstory and contacting Theon than acting as clunky exposition.

[protar]

Even reediting the episodes to include flashbacks they already filmed would have consumed money and man hours, so we simply do not know whether it would have been feasible. Plus, those scenes you would cut are some of the most important scenes to viewers who never read the books. Flashbacks to the rebellion would have killed the show.

No they wouldn't. They would have served the same purpose as the exposition we got on the rebellion but they would have been clearer to the audience. It may be that flashbacks would have been too expensive, however I personally think that if the show had been built from the ground up to accommodate them they would have worked.

[Hippocras]

Cutting down does not equal eliminating. Bran should have visions, but they should be kept to the same level as in the books. At the moment Bran is still "in training" so he doesn't have much to do. He should be in 4 or 5 episodes like he was this season and I'd rather more of that was exploring BR's backstory and contacting Theon than acting as clunky exposition.

I don't see why you automatically assume it would be clunky. Lots of shows do sequences from the past quite well. Like Cold Case.

[FalseKnight]

They said that Bran should have very few scenes and episodes and should not be used as a means to show the key events of the past.

Very few scenes and episodes and not showing visions basically means making Bran an irrelevant side show with no connection left at all to the rest of the series.

So...there are these people in the capital fighting for power,

and while they are doing that there are threats coming from the East and the North

...and there is a kid in a tree talking to an old guy.

They were discussing the proper use of flashbacks. Bran has appeared in fewer episodes than most characters anyway. Keeping him near his normal screen time isn't a ridiculous suggestion. They only have three-ish chapters of source material left.

[sj4iy]

I don't see why you automatically assume it would be clunky. Lots of shows do sequences from the past quite well. Like Cold Case.

Bran's visions have been very well done so far. Giving us information and symbolism without feeling too heavy. I see no reason why they won't do the same with anything else.

[protar]

I don't see why you automatically assume it would be clunky. Lots of shows do sequences from the past quite well. Like Cold Case.

You're missing my point. It's not the mere existence of flashbacks I think will be clunky - if you hadn't noticed I've been saying how I wish they'd been there from the start. What's clunky is having a character whose sole purpose for an entire season is to give us said flashbacks. Do that, and Bran stops becoming a character, he becomes equivalent to a sign which says "exposition time." Flashbacks work when they're woven into the narrative in place that make sense, not when they're dropped about randomly.

[FalseKnight]

No they wouldn't. They would have served the same purpose as the exposition we got on the rebellion but they would have been clearer to the audience. It may be that flashbacks would have been too expensive, however I personally think that if the show had been built from the ground up to accommodate them they would have worked.

Flashbacks to character and events I didn't have any attachment to, would have forced me to change the channel and never look back. They would have needed to reshoot the scenes leading up to the flashbacks, thereby using all of the money you think they had. It's just not reasonable.

[Hippocras]

You're missing my point. It's not the mere existence of flashbacks I think will be clunky - if you hadn't noticed I've been saying how I wish they'd been there from the start. What's clunky is having a character whose sole purpose for an entire season is to give us said flashbacks. Do that, and Bran stops becoming a character, he becomes equivalent to a sign which says "exposition time." Flashbacks work when they're woven into the narrative in place that make sense, not when they're dropped about randomly.

But I emphatically disagree they should have been there from the start.

Bran was not a greenseer from the start. The show is different from the books. If we had been actually seeing flackbacks before there would have been no way to show the importance of what Bran will be doing. It would just feel like more of the same.

[Hippocras]

They were discussing the proper use of flashbacks. Bran has appeared in fewer episodes than most characters anyway. Keeping him near his normal screen time isn't a ridiculous suggestion. They only have three-ish chapters of source material left.

Bran appeared in few episodes because he wasn't doing anything yet. That status CHANGES at this point in the show. Bran starts becoming at least as important as Arya now, and his time on screen will go up, not down.

His importance is that he is a greenseer. Just as Arya will be learning to be an assassin, Bran will be learning to see the past and interpret it and figure out what needs to be done to save Westeros from White Walkers. He is extremely important now.

[FalseKnight]

Bran appeared in few episodes because he wasn't doing anything yet. That status CHANGES at this point in the show. Bran starts becoming at least as important as Arya now, and his time on screen will go up, not down.

His importance is that he is a greenseer. Just as Arya will be learning to be an assassin, Bran will be learning to see the past and interpret it and figure out what needs to be done to save Westeros from White Walkers. He is extremely important now.

Three chapters, dude.

[protar]

Flashbacks to character and events I didn't have any attachment to, would have forced me to change the channel and never look back. They would have needed to reshoot the scenes leading up to the flashbacks, thereby using all of the money you think they had. It's just not reasonable.

They wouldn't have needed to re-shoot anything if the show had been built around them to begin with. Also, who says the audience wouldn't be invested in those characters? The book fandom pays a lot of attention to these posthumous characters. Make them interesting in the flashbacks, make it clear how they affect the present day, and people would care.

But I emphatically disagree they should have been there from the start.

Bran was not a greenseer from the start. The show is different from the books. If we had been actually seeing flackbacks before there would have been no way to show the importance of what Bran will be doing. It would just feel like more of the same.

The books manage to convey the importance of Bran's powers just fine even with the pre-existing flashbacks. The power of Bran's flashbacks are twofold: Firstly it's about the characters being able to see the past. Secondly, it's about being able to see events out of reach of living memory which therefore can't be told via flashbacks.