Stannis and Randyl

[aceluby]

So I'm reading AFFC and ADWD right now and we learn quite a bit about both of these characters by now and moreso than anyone else in the series I find that these characters are eerily similar. To the point that I think if Stannis had Sam that he may have done what Randyl did. The are both hard men, they both have a strong sense of justice, they both care deeply about the law, many people fear them including (especially?) their own men, etc... I think there's WAY more similarity here than Stannis has to anyone else. Anybody else think this, or is this way off base?

[Fat Mac]

Stannis probably wouldn't do the same as Randyll if they were in the same predicament with Sam, though. Randyll chained Sam in a dungeon when Sam wanted to be a Maester. I don't think Stannis would have a problem with Sam's wishes, really. Plus, they wanted to foster Robert Arryn with Stannis. Perhaps he has what it takes to rear "weak" children.

But either way, there are some similarities that can be pointed out. Randyll is a bigger dick though, saying that Brienne could use a "good rape." Stannis, who is wholeheartedly against rape, would say no such thing.

So, you are not way off base. Stannis and Randyll to have some similarities, Randyll just seems believe it or not more harsh than Stannis in some respects.

[The Titan's Legitimate Son]

Well Stannis' living heir is a young girl with grey scale on her face. The world in which they live deems women to be generally inferior to men, especially in the case of rule (<Edit: please read that last bit carefully, I am not advocating this idea - it is the world in which they live) Add to this the fact that Shireen is cursed with a grey scale infliction, can we not say this a child Randyll would have tried to get rid off if she was his only heir in favour of a nephew?

Who is to say, but in the WoW preview chapter, Stannis tells Massey that if Stannis is to die in the coming battle, that he should still fight and put Shireen on the throne. He seems willingly to put a 'weak' child on the throne, because it his (and thus her) right - just as the Tarly lordship should have been Sam's right...

[Bob Sacamano]

They also share not being recognized for awesome military victories.

[The Drunkard]

I can't imagine Stannis ever not being painfully awkward around his children, but Randyll was a special case of cruel in his treatment of Sam that I doubt Stannis could match.

Stannis would never threaten to murder Sam in order for his birthright to pass to a younger son, for example. He'd probably just be grinding his teeth in his grave when Sam came to power.

[King Robert's Warhammer]

I don't think Stannis would act so cruelly to his own child.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

No I don't think Stannis would've been cruel to Sam. Frustrated perhaps, but not cruel. Stannis knows what it's like to be the least loved child.

[Winter's Knight]

I don't see Stannis abusing Sam or making that awful hunting accident threat. He wouldn't be kind or understanding and I can see him being verbally cruel but not physically abuive.

[aceluby]

Yeah, the cruelty toward Sam probably wouldn't have happened, but I have no doubt that there would be severe disappointment and plenty of awkward moments of failure that Sam would not look back fondly on. If Sam was Stannis' only heir I could see him denying Sam becoming a Maester, just not in such a cruel way. And while Stannis probably wouldn't excuse anyone of raping Brienne, I'd find it hard to believe that Stannis would approve of her career choice and I would bet that he would have his fair share of japes and jabs at her expense.

[Ahura Mazda]

I would dare say, no.

Stannis and Randyl have different children, so it is not possible to compare them by means of that. Yet, I think it is possible to compare them by the way they threat their brides.

Stannis plainly doesn't love his wife, spends the longest time he can get away from her and only goes in her bed once a year because it his "duty". Besides this dislike feelings, he looks like it is trying to threat her lady just like he is supposed to be. AFAIK he had shown some sign of pity and understanding toward his wife, though I do not recall the chapter, and only treat her with the same coldness and sharpness he gives to anyone. He is far from the ideal husband, yet has no sign of being cruel.

In the eyes of Sam, Randyl's wife has been instead subject to grudge feelings and scolds several times. Undoubtedly Randyl's believed his wife the only responsible for his own son soft nature, and openly blamed her for that. That is a sign of a man privy of empathic capabilities imho, not able to understand himself nor to control himself. Compared to Stannis, instead of retreating in his own corner, Randyl attacks the wife to express his unsatisfactory feelings and feel a "better dad". That is what I define a "master-dad", which is totally unlike Stannis. The latter is obsessed with bending the knee to rules imposed by others in order to feel he has done the right deed and obtain approval, and can also understand the difficult situation of his own child and wife. He runs away from confronting them though, just like he is running away from himself by sticking to the rules and exerting passively power. Randyl instead believes in power, his own military power, and understands the world only on such terms: what is not powerful is not valuable. Hence he is pro actively exerting power to gain control onto every situation he is challenged with, even those (like Sam, his Wife, ..) that would instead require a different mindset.

[RoamingRonin]

Bases on Stannis' relationship with Shireen, Stannis would flat out ignore Sam at every opportunity which is a different kind of cruelty.

[Julian Rayne]

Stannis does not wish rape on people.

[aceluby]

I'm not sure why people are concentrating on a single aspect or a single act in this analysis. These characters are more than one act or event. I think they have fairly similar view points, but that in the end Randyl has no concept of cruelty while Stannis does. Their outlook on law, order, commanding men, and what others think of them are pretty similar. Far more similar than say, Stannis to Tywin or Stannis to Aerys or Stannis to pretty much anybody else.

[Irresistable]

Stannis is not like Tarly.

I think he proved that when he chose his brother over his king.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

If Sam had been Stannis' son or had even merely been fostered by Stannis, he would have seen it as his duty to take the Black to guard the realm, he would have rallied his Brothers at the First and led them to victory, he would have single-handedly slayed Mance Raider and he would be First Ranger by now. Enough said.

[Fat Mac]

Bases on Stannis' relationship with Shireen, Stannis would flat out ignore Sam at every opportunity which is a different kind of cruelty.

I'm not saying Stannis is father of the year, but throughout most of the series he is a little too preoccupied to be spending oodles of time with his daughter.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Well here's the thing, Randyll's a dick and Stannis, not so much.

[Lord Bronn of Sunspear]

Randyl would have thrown his greyscale child down a well.

[( Bloodraven )]

Well Stannis' living heir is a young girl with grey scale on her face. The world in which they live deems women to be generally inferior to men, especially in the case of rule (<Edit: please read that last bit carefully, I am not advocating this idea - it is the world in which they live) Add to this the fact that Shireen is cursed with a grey scale infliction, can we not say this a child Randyll would have tried to get rid off if she was his only heir in favour of a nephew?

Who is to say, but in the WoW preview chapter, Stannis tells Massey that if Stannis is to die in the coming battle, that he should still fight and put Shireen on the throne. He seems willingly to put a 'weak' child on the throne, because it his (and thus her) right - just as the Tarly lordship should have been Sam's right...

Agreed.

And I cant see Stan telling anyone they could "use a good raping". Ever. So no.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Both had bad luck with their children, from their point of view at least. But it seems to me that Stannis is much more accepting than Randyll. He could have legitimized Edric and made him his heir, I think, but he sticks to his daugher, even though she's seen as disfigured. I think he would not have much love for a son like Sam, but I am certain he would treat him as his heir nonetheless.
Also, let us not forget that Stannis had a good relationship with Cressen (until it ended the way it did), so it would be even easier to accept Sam the way he was, as I could imagine Cressen as an intermediary between the two. With Cressen at their side, I can't imagine any other outcome than Sam becoming a Maester in case of Stannis fathering another son.