Daenerys' Child Alive and Jon Snow Not Dead.

[Fat King Robert]

Alrighty. This is my attempt at a crackpot theory. Lo and behold!

We know that Daenerys was pregnant with the son of Khal Drogo. We all know that Mirr Maz Duur (whom I will refer to MMD henceforth) brought the child to the world and that it was stillborn, in other words, not alive. According to MMD, only death can pay for life. This seems to hint that one have to die to pay for the extended life of another and that it involves some sort of blood magic. I'll leave this for now and get back to it later.

In GoT, we know for a fact that Bran gets weaker when Summer is chased away and. Bran, however, gets stronger when Summer is once again near him. Pure speculation, but that might suggest that when badly injured, a warg can rely on their bond with their animal (to some extent) to recover from their wounds.

We know that Jon Snow is betrayed by Bowen Marsh and gets stabbed by him and several black brothers. During this event, Ghost is likely being kept in Jon's chamber. I've seen many suggestions that Mel might revive Jon or that he'll warg into Ghost, but to me there's another alternative.

Bran's fall and recovery from it, as well as Summer's part in it, could mean that wargs might share a "health bar" (suggestion for another term?) with the animal they have bonded with. Now, Jon, to my knowledge, hasn't warged Ghost yet. At least not knowingly. There was that time where he saw Mance Rayder's wildling host through the eyes of Ghost, but that's all (Please correct me if I'm wrong in this). If somone tends to Jon's wounds (by Mel or anyone else) while Ghost is somewhat near, he might be alive for the being.

Right, let's get back to Daenerys' son, Rhaego.

In A Clash of Kings, Dany goes to the House of Undying. There, she sees several visions, many of them foreshadowing an upcoming/previous event or simply a person. Let's list them:

1. A beautiful naked woman getting ravished by four dwarves. (The WOT5K?)

2. A feast of slaughtered corpses feasting, and a man with a wolf head sitting on a throne with an iron crown. (RW)

3. A red door in Braavos. (Dany's childhood home)

4. A throne room with dragon skulls on the walls, and what appears to be the Mad King shouting orders. (Aerys ordering the sack of KL)

5. A room where a silver haired man names his son and says the child is TPTWP. (Rhaegar and the birth of Aegon)

6. Wizards who falsely claim to be the undying ones, who offers to teach Daenerys the secret speech of dragonkind. (Warlocks trying to trick Dany?)

The undying ones also shows her other visions before Drogon kills them:

1. Viserys' death.

2. A tall lord with copper-skin and silver-gold hair beneath a banner of a fiery stallion, with a burning city in the background.

3. Rhaegar Targaryen dying.

4. A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a sword in his hand. (Stannis?)

5. A cloth dragon sways on poles amidst a cheering crowd. (fAegon?)

6. A stone beast takes wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadows. (Monster of Winterfell? Mel awakening a stone dragon?)

7. Daenerys' silver trots through grass to a darkling stream under a sea of stars.

8. A corpse standing at the prow of a ship with bright eyes and grey smiling lips. (Hardhome?)

9. A blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice, filling the air with sweetness. (Jon)

We see many (and possible) foreshadowings here. Possible hints of the future, what might happen, somethings have already happened - the past. There's one who seems odd, and that's the bolded one. This is the only vision that suggests something that could have happened. Not the past, not the future. MMD said that Dany's child was dead.

What if she lied? What if the vision (with Dany's child) is the future? What if MMD simply "smuggled" the baby from the camp (someone doing it for her) so that the kid could grow up, not knowing who he is, and therefore not becoming the Stallion that Mounts the World.

I know this sounds like madness (but this IS the forums) and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter, as well as your suggestion why it could/couldn't be true.

EDIT: MasterJack's in depth MMD lying and Rhaego being alive: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/97830-could-rhaego-be-alive/

[MasterJack]

Hi, here is my personal theory about Rhaego, with some new editing in the OP: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/97830-could-rhaego-be-alive/


I find it weird too about how Dany saw a futur that Could have happened, it is weird too the Stallion who mount the World prophecy is the only one in the serie who failed. (without trying some wierd interpretation as it is Rhaegon and he mount the world since he will be the one who fly the highest...)

[Arya kiddin']

TSTMTW is Dany herself when she sits on Drogon. That is my interpretation at least.

[Fat King Robert]

Hi, here is my personal theory about Rhaego, with some new editing in the OP: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/97830-could-rhaego-be-alive/

I find it weird too about how Dany saw a futur that Could have happened, it is weird too the Stallion who mount the World prophecy is the only one in the serie who failed. (without trying some wierd interpretation as it is Rhaegon and he mount the world since he will be the one who fly the highest...)

Oh! Nice! I'll leave a link to your post. Good reading for surre! :drool:

TSTMTW is Dany herself when she sits on Drogon. That is my interpretation at least.

Could be. She could become TSTMTW (phew) now herself since she's riding Drogon. Perhaps the "prophecy" was meant for her all along and was somehow misinterpreted from the start.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Melissandre also at one point says that some visions are shown to people, so they can be prevented, otherwise "what is the use of visions?" she thinks to herself. So perhaps the vision Dany saw in THOTU does show what could have been, but by MMD's intervention, it hasn't come true?

I like the theory that it's Dany riding Drogon though. It shows Dany really has become a dothraki. Also, there's a theory Dany herself is the PtwP, and she'll be the one to unite all the khalasars in Vaes Dothrak. That sort of fits with the Dany is the dothraki with the silver hair theory, doesn't it?

[The Merry Other]

"A tall lord with copper-skin and silver-gold hair beneath a banner of a fiery stallion, with a burning city in the background."

This one got me thinking too. "The tall lord with copper skin" could only mean either Drogo or Rhaego. If the vision was about the past, then it's Drogo. If it's about the future, then Rhaego fits the bill. But then Drogo's hair was black, not silver-gold. So it may very well be that what Dany saw was indeed her son

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

"A tall lord with copper-skin and silver-gold hair beneath a banner of a fiery stallion, with a burning city in the background."

This one got me thinking too. "The tall lord with copper skin" could only mean either Drogo or Rhaego. If the vision was about the past, then it's Drogo. If it's about the future, then Rhaego fits the bill. But then Drogo's hair was black, not silver-gold. So it may very well be that what Dany saw was indeed her son

Perhaps it's Rhaego's spirit living on in one of the dragons? Visions shouldn't always be taken literally, so perhaps that is a way to interpret it?

[Fat King Robert]

Perhaps it's Rhaego's spirit living on in one of the dragons? Visions shouldn't always be taken literally, so perhaps that is a way to interpret it?

I don't know.....Shouldn't it be Khal Drogo's spirit in that case? Since he 'paid for their lives' so to speak, shouldn't each of the dragons gotten traits from him instead?

[Buried Treasure]

Hi, here is my personal theory about Rhaego, with some new editing in the OP: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/97830-could-rhaego-be-alive/

I find it weird too about how Dany saw a futur that Could have happened, it is weird too the Stallion who mount the World prophecy is the only one in the serie who failed. (without trying some wierd interpretation as it is Rhaegon and he mount the world since he will be the one who fly the highest...)

The dosh khaleen may have indeed got their interpretation wrong. Their focus was too narrow so they saw the possibility of her child changing the world only in terms of him being a stallion. Yet it is true that her three children have already wreaked change on the world and altered the destiny of thousands. Dany did not realise it at the time but I feel very strongly that the choice she made was Rhaego or the dragons and one or other was going to be the fulfillment of the prophecy.

I don't find it odd the in the HotU Dany saw a closed future, that is one that was once possible but was no longer by that time. It was a supernatural echo chamber and showed all kinds of destinies that had a link to her.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Perhaps it's Rhaego's spirit living on in one of the dragons? Visions shouldn't always be taken literally, so perhaps that is a way to interpret it?

I think you have the right of it. Remember that Dany first dreamed of the the tall copper skinned, silver haired man after the "still birth" In her dream he turned into a dragon, when she woke she had an overwhelming desire to hold a dragon egg. She finally got one (Viserion's) and slept with it. When she woke it was warm and she felt something "twist and stretch in response" when she touched it. I believe Rhaego's spirit has joined with Viserion, and the HotU vision is simply a vision of the dragon in triumph. Rhaego's spirit living on inside a dragon means the DK's prophecy can still come true, without the child literally being alive. In a narrative sense it actually works better, since we don't have time in story to see Rhaego grow to manhood to fulfill the prophecy.

[Winter's Knight]

Rhaego's dead. It was his death that gave life to the previously stone eggs.

She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver- gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

She wakes and struggles towards her eggs but Jorah puts her back in bed. MMD brings her Viserion's egg when she wakes days later.

[Amoracchius]

I don't know.....Shouldn't it be Khal Drogo's spirit in that case? Since he 'paid for their lives' so to speak, shouldn't each of the dragons gotten traits from him instead?

Re-reading Dany's last chapter in AGOT has convinced me that what she did was actually a blood magic ritual where the lives of Drogo, Rhaego, and MMD were sacrificed to bring her three dragons to life. I've seen a few posters on these forums suggest that Drogon got his aggressive traits from Drogo. I'm not sure I believe that, but I think there is definitely something connecting blood magic and dragons. Dany is only able to hatch her eggs through sacrifice and, supposedly, who ever blows the horn Victarion hopes will allow him to control a dragon will die in the effort.

[Fat King Robert]

I think you have the right of it. Remember that Dany first dreamed of the the tall copper skinned, silver haired man after the "still birth" In her dream he turned into a dragon, when she woke she had an overwhelming desire to hold a dragon egg. She finally got one (Viserion's) and slept with it. When she woke it was warm and she felt something "twist and stretch in response" when she touched it. I believe Rhaego's spirit has joined with Viserion, and the HotU vision is simply a vision of the dragon in triumph. Rhaego's spirit living on inside a dragon means the DK's prophecy can still come true, without the child literally being alive. In a narrative sense it actually works better, since we don't have time in story to see Rhaego grow to manhood to fulfill the prophecy.

It could become a novel of it own, like the Dunk and Egg series. I know I'd read it, for sure. Wow, I'm so getting carried away right now, but think of it!

As to the rest of your response: Would that mean that each of the dragons got a 'soul' from another person? Drogon - Khal Drogo, Viserion - Rhaego, Rhaegal - MMD?

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

If we are talking about the dragons getting their traits from the sacrifices then Rhaegal or Viseron must be a tragic heroic dragon like MMD

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Martin let it slip that Jon is not dead

[Fat King Robert]

Martin let it slip that Jon is not dead

When? Where? Source?

To get back on topic, Let's say that the dragons have gotten traits from a human being. How would that work? I mean, Rhaego, paid for Khal Drogos' life, and Drogo died before the hatching of the dragons. The only person that died during the hatching was MMD.....her, and a horse.

[The Merry Other]

deleted

[The Merry Other]

Then Drogon would have torn Rhaegal to pieces. Doesn't make sense

[Winter's Knight]

When? Where? Source?

Here.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

Well, I guess. Yes. That’s how I took it. The way it was written, it sounded like he was mortally wounded — and, you know, it’s you!

Well. I’m not going to address whether he’s dead or not. But as to why — didn’t you think the text established why they would want to assassinate him?

And this.

You introduce characters, and sometimes they take on a life of their own.

Some major characters -- yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Where could Rhaego have gone? They were in the middle of the Dothraki Sea, he wouldn't last very long at all without his mother or a wet nurse and I don't think Dothraki have wet nurses.