TheHouseHB Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Tyrion will release Jaime and pay back his debt for Jaime releasing him. Jaime will then kill Daenerys husband and hand at the time in the tower of the hand Vicatarion Greyjoy mirroring Tyrions last chapter in Storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsinthepaste? Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I do love the thought of a zombie giving a character testimony on behalf of Jamie. :lmao: Thank you for that. This is quite a delusional thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singer's stew Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Jaime would laugh in her face and probably make a joke about how he killed Aerys. And well we can imagine what will come after that. Ye, somethin like this. Daenerys: I'm Daenerys... (names her titles for few hours). You, usurpers dog, killed my poor innocent father, prepare to die. Ser Barristan(Victarion, Strong Belwas,Ser Jorah), kill this monster in a name of blood of dragon, mother of dragons and blah, blah, blah. Jaime: Sorry,that was so inconsistent that I napped for bit. *draws his sword and kill Daenerys while she daydreaming about Dario*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I don't think they'll ever meet. If they do, it will be interesting, to be sure. No other encounter would so directly put the question of how her thirst for revenge for her family's murders will interact with the truths she doesn't yet know. But I don't see Dany executing someone without learning the full story. Some of the language that is applied to her in this thread - "aggressively incompetent," "cruel butcher queen," "clearly delusional," "no tortures known to man would satisfy Dany" - isn't based on the books I have been reading. Remember, she has had no practical reason to need to know the history of what happened in Westeros up til now. And she has been kind of busy. If she starts taking actions based on her misconceptions, that's the time to complain. It hasn't happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 But I don't see Dany executing someone without learning the full story. Some of the language that is applied to her in this thread - "aggressively incompetent," "clearly delusional," "no tortures known to man would satisfy Dany" - isn't based on the books I have been reading. Well, I'm reading ADWD right now and I think we can objectively agree that she's not consistent. One chapter she has an innkeeper and his son tortured because the Sons of the Harpy had murdered some of her people in their establishment and so they might know something. It's just as likely they don't and she just ordered the torture of two innocent men because she was frustrated with the lack of progress. On her very next chapter, a distraught yet unsympathetic representant of Astapor spat in her face because she wouldn't help them against Yunkai and beside the immediate roughing he received from a guard, she had him sent away with no punishment, saying nobody ever died because of a little spit. From tyrannical to extremely merciful in the span of two chapters. So, really, who knows what she'll do if Jaime is ever in her power. She is, however, able both to order a man tortured for petty reasons and to forgive transgressions, that much is obvious (usually not on the same person!). At this point, it seems her emotional state at the time she makes a decision is the deciding factor. She was fustrated and angry when she ordered the innkeeper and his son tortured. She was feeling guilty about the current state of Meereen following a conversation with Xaro when she spared any punishement to the Astapor emissary. I'll read her next chapters with this in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Well, I'm reading ADWD right now and I think we can objectively agree that she's not consistent. One chapter she has an innkeeper and his son tortured because the Sons of the Harpy had murdered some of her people in their establishment and so they might know something. It's just as likely they don't and she just ordered the torture of two innocent men because she was frustrated with the lack of progress. On her very next chapter, a distraught yet unsympathetic representant of Astapor spat in her face because she wouldn't help them against Yunkai and beside the immediate roughing he received from a guard, she had him sent away with no punishment, saying nobody ever died because of a little spit. From tyrannical to extremely merciful in the span of two chapters. So, really, who knows what she'll do if Jaime is ever in her power. She is however, able both to order a man tortured for petty reasons and to forgive transgressions, that much is obvious (usually not on the same person!). At this point, it seems her emotional state at the time she makes a decision is the deciding factor. She was fustrated and angry when she ordered the innkeeper and his son tortured. She was feeling guilty about the current state of Meereen following a conversation with Xaro when she spared any punishement to the Astapor emissary. I'll read her next chapters with this in mind. I agree with most of this, but I'd just like to point out that it was the wineseller's daughters that were tortured, not his son. I apologise, it's the terrible pedant in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I agree with most of this, but I'd just like to point out that it was the wineseller's daughters that were tortured, not his son. I apologise, it's the terrible pedant in me. Daughters? Ugh. Worse than I remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Daughters? Ugh. Worse than I remembered. Yeah, it's not one of Dany's shining moments really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Dany is at times a pawn to her emotions, which is not a rare condition among teen-age girls (or teen-age boys, for that matter). Unfortunately, she is prone to fits of anger. I tend to think she is destined for greatness because of her brilliance (and dragons), but if she's going to screw something up badly, it will be as a result of losing her temper. Letting the Shavepate have his way with the wineseller's daughters was not her finest hour, but there was more going on than Dany being in a bad mood. The Harpy crap was getting out of hand and threatening her regime and all she had accomplished. She was desperate and made a mistake, but even though she is still desperate she has resolved not to make that mistake again. This is all strongly analogous to the U.S. using waterboarding in Iraq and Guantanamo. Supposedly done for vital reasons out of principle and not as a standard operating procedure, but in retrospect almost certainly a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yeah, it's not one of Dany's shining moments really. What's worse to me is so far she hasn't reflected on this. Does she eventually (I'm not through ADWD)? So far I don't even know if the interrogation yielded anything. It probably didn't, if Dany had struck a blow against the SoH, it would have come up in the following chapter. Which meant likely they were innocent. Hopefully they are no also dead, a common occurence with prisoners tortured that did not yield anything useful. Also, hopefully the daughters of the wineseller were not raped as part of the torture. This is also depressingly common. And initially she wanted the winessellers and his family interrogated 'sweetly' (which I assumed meant without torture) to see if they knew something. Then she gets some more bad news and get angry and she changes her mind and now wants the prisoners interrogated 'harshly' (an obvious euphemism for torture). Dany, just because you are now angry does not change the facts nor the correct course of action... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Double post, ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Double post, ignore. Don't tell me what to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Don't tell me what to do! That was rather imperious of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That was rather imperious of me. From imperious to apolegetic, you're just like Dany... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 This is all strongly analogous to the U.S. using waterboarding in Iraq and Guantanamo. Supposedly done for vital reasons out of principle and not as a standard operating procedure, but in retrospect almost certainly a mistake. The middle-easternish setting certainly makes you think about that, doesn't it? she has resolved not to make that mistake again. Did she? Does she reflects on that incident later in ADWD (I'm only at her thrid or fourth chaoter I think). I hope so, it'd go a long way restoring sympathy. Mistake admitted is half forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumkin77 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 One chapter she has an innkeeper and his son tortured because the Sons of the Harpy had murdered some of her people in their establishment and so they might know something. It's just as likely they don't and she just ordered the torture of two innocent men because she was frustrated with the lack of progress. On her very next chapter, a distraught yet unsympathetic representant of Astapor spat in her face because she wouldn't help them against Yunkai and beside the immediate roughing he received from a guard, she had him sent away with no punishment, saying nobody ever died because of a little spit. From tyrannical to extremely merciful in the span of two chapters. Daenerys is very protective of "her" people. Sons of Harpy killing her freemen and her Unsullied hurt her so much that she was desperate to stop the killings in any way possible. I'm not trying to justify her use of torture here, just offering an explanation :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Daenerys is very protective of "her" people. Sons of Harpy killing her freemen and her Unsullied hurt her so much that she was desperate to stop the killings in any way possible. I'm not trying to justify her use of torture here, just offering an explanation :) . You may have heard of this quote: ''The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions'' I don't expect her to be perfect and I still see a good heart in her, all things considered. But she just HAS to learn to control her emotions. She can't rule effectively if her emotions rule her. Oh, and technically, the winesellers and his daughters were also Dany's people and also needed her protection. Isn't she their ruler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 What's worse to me is so far she hasn't reflected on this. Does she eventually (I'm not through ADWD)? So far I don't even know if the interrogation yielded anything. It probably didn't, if Dany had struck a blow against the SoH, it would have come up in the following chapter. Which meant likely they were innocent. Hopefully they are no also dead, a common occurence with prisoners tortured that did not yield anything useful. Also, hopefully the daughters of the wineseller were not raped as part of the torture. This is also depressingly common. And initially she wanted the winessellers and his family interrogated 'sweetly' (which I assumed meant without torture) to see if they knew something. Then she gets some more bad news and get angry and she changes her mind and now wants the prisoners interrogated 'harshly' (an obvious euphemism for torture). Dany, just because you are now angry does not change the facts nor the correct course of action... Well, she doesn't ever reflect on that particular torture, no. She does, however, come to the conclusion that the Shavepate is bringing her too many names (Sons of the Harpy) from other torture victims and orders it to stop, so that's something I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Well, she doesn't ever reflect on that particular torture, no. She does, however, come to the conclusion that the Shavepate is bringing her too many names (Sons of the Harpy) from other torture victims and orders it to stop, so that's something I suppose. Better than nothing, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Jaime's character is such that he probably wouldn't even attempt to justify his behaviour to her. He'd probably just say something like "like father like daughter" when he was sentenced to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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