Emeralds

[Alia of the knife]

Great job as always JS and to Ygrain and Lady Gwyn. :)

[Arya kiddin']

Great work J Star. That GRRM bloke writes really carefully, each word is planned. I've never quite seen another book series like this. good job. :thumbsup:

[Greymoon]

Just a little note, not on emerald precisely but on colors in general:

Besides the emerald = usurper theory, green often symbolizes envy and jealousy, along with its more positive meanings. White stands for purity, peace and morality; Blue for truth, devotion etc...Black for chaos, mystery, death....

• what to make of Dany's dragons. One Black, one White, one Green. Green one for usurper, white one for the "peace bringer," and black for the conqueror?
  
• Tyrion and his mismatched eyes...should it mean that his loyalty is divided, since he's half Lannister (sharing the attributes of "emerald" with his siblings and family) but might cause his family’s downfall (Black = death). His mother died in childbirth, his capture kind of started the war, he send Myrcella to Dorne where she could have died (and still could), his wife unwillingly played a role in Joeffrey’s poisoning, he killed Tywin... and might be the valonquar. If Black means inter-dynasty conflict, then Tyrion’s mismatched eyes could be the very embodiment of conflicting loyalties within the Lannister house (especially considering Jaime's (former) affection towards Tyrion and Cersei's utter dislike of him...)
  
• 
  

  Ghost as the symbol for the Targaryen dynasty (red eyes), morality and spirituality (white fur). Is Ghost the embodiment of Jon's morality, or a moral indicator? Jon has Ghost sleep between him and Ygritte to protect his chastity. Ghost disappears when Jon starts losing himself, and reappears when Jon refuses Winterfell...But Ghost also gets seduced by Melisandre and takes a liking to Val. And in a way Melisandre and Val are a danger to Jon's morality = Melisandre with her promises to save Arya, Val because he finds her attractive.

  
  
  

[Greymoon]

I'm not clear on the Blue Fork...but isn't that where/close to where Robb wrote the letter/will?

[Fanless Mace]

It's not lost on me that emeralds and other jewels are often called "ice" (e.g., some marketers call emeralds "green ice) -- and yet, they are truly born of fire, and are often described as "blazing" or other similar metaphors in literature.

Emeralds are also reminiscent of the WizOfOz story, a classic fantasy (we know GRRM likes homages).

Other fire and ice rocks and stuff - often with death involved:

--Obsidian, another ice-like mineral, kills the Others

--Valaryan steel, which is forged with fire but is cold to the touch, is steel wrought jewel-like, and often brings death with its touch.

--The amethysts in the hair net were poisoned.

--Jamie saves Brienne's life by suggesting to Vargo that she's worth more emeralds alive and pure than dead and/or soiled.

And then there's the color of Tyrion's eyes, as someone pointed out above. green for emeralds perhaps...and black for obsidian?

[Ygrain]

Thanks for the shout-out, though I do not feel that my contribution was worth much, yours was the most work.

I am most intrigued by the eye colours representing the various factions as well as the weirwood colours, which all seem to have a deeper meaning (marked by the old gods?). I can't quite place it but I have a gut feeling that there is something crucial that we are overlooking, or perhaps don't really know yet, to tie all this together. Looking forward to the next insight :-)

[rivergirl]

Firstly, awesome thread! :bowdown: To everyone involved in the whole jewel-symbolism thing, it's something i never even considered and the presentation of all the ideas is great, along with the obvious shit-tonne of research.

Secondly, what do you think of the lack of diamonds in the series? Considering the abundance of jewels, it strikes me as odd that non-black diamonds are mentioned only once. When they are mentioned they're worn (ironically enough) by Cersei:

Masses of bright yellow hair tumbled to her bare shoulders in thick curls. Around her slender neck hung a rope of diamonds and emeralds. The white made her look innocent, almost maidenly, but there were points of colour on her cheeks.

So here, diamonds are associated with innocence and purity. It seems fitting that, in such a corrupt world, they're hardly ever worn. The rest of the diamonds mentioned are black, and worn by Renly, Alayaya, Jaime, Shae and Theon- the corellation here being that two are whores, two are worn by people who are having sex with people they shouldn't (Loras and Cersei) and the other… well, Theon is no virgin. They're also worn by Cersei, for whom the same goes as Jaime. They're mentioned again in the Myrish Swamp Scene:

There was no pleasure in it, not for her. For Taena, yes. Her nipples were two black diamonds, her sex slick and steamy.

To me, this suggests that black diamonds = corruption and sexual infidelity, whereas white ones mean purity. Any thoughts on the meaning of diamonds, both white and black? I wonder if there is anything in the black diamond scenes that connects them all... Anyway, sorry that this was kind of off-topic. Again, great thread and great theory :cheers:

[J. Stargaryen]

Thanks to everybody who said they liked the thread. It's greatly appreciated.

Greymoon, nice addition concerning green=envy. I think it fits well with the theme of usurpation. After all, if you try to take something that belongs to someone else, that implies a certain amount of jealousy and envy.

Concerning the Blue Fork, the connection to Robb's will is mentioned in the OP, but perhaps I should reread a bit to get all of the details instead of just the general idea.

As for black diamonds, I think the modifier there is probably the important part. Note that in the parley between Stannis and Renly that the latter is wearing emeralds and black diamonds. Green + black = intra-dynastic conflict, I think.

“And brothers,” a cheerful voice called out behind her. Catelyn glanced over her shoulder as Lord Renly’s palfrey picked her way through the stumps. The younger Baratheon was splendid in his green velvet doublet and satin cloak trimmed in vair. The crown of golden roses girded his temples, jade stag’s head rising over his forehead, long black hair spilling out beneath. jagged chunks of black diamond studded his swordbelt, and a chain of gold and emeralds looped around his neck. - Catelyn III

The green + black also works well with Tyrion's eyes, since he is certainly at odds with his sister.

Ygrain, sometimes a few words can be a lot of help. Also, though I didn't mention this in the OP because I wasn't sure what to make of it, I believe you suggested a possible link between the red, blue and green colors and the eye color of 'magical' beings; i.e., greenseers and Others/Wights. I think that is definitely something. And, as I mentioned in Yolkboy's Melony Seastar thread, Bloodraven's eye is red, while Shiera's are blue and green.

So, we are seeing these three colors repeatedly grouped together. Which means it's not a surprise that there are 'codes' for rubies, sapphires and emeralds. The three colors share some sort of link.

[Lord Martin]

I attempted something very similar not long ago:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99334-no-emerald-code/#entry5113885

I could find no discernible "Emerald Code" at least one not as strong as the Sapphire Code. My hat is off to you for identifying some broad potential themes.

My first reaction was to think this even weaker than the Ruby Code.... but I am starting to come around a little bit. Though isn't everyone really a usurper in this series?

The hang ups I have are a few scenes that appear to have nothing to to with usurpation, Lannisters etc...For instance, Jon Snow north of the Wall... what does that have to do with Blackwater? I wondered if that was the same chapter Chett began his conspiracy against LC Mormont....but it isn't...

I also have concerns about Pycelle's emerald and the knight in the HOTU.

Euron and Xaro also don't seem to quite fit.

However, I would love to see the Dany emerald instances revisited after the Princess and the Queen comes out.

I am intrigued and would like to see how this plays out in the long run... especially the idea of Red, Green and Blue dynasties. However, if the sapphire code is correct that a deception is being perpetrated and you are correct that Jon Snow leads the Blye Dynasty... then R+L=J!

[Little and Less]

Great analysis, I always like reading your OPs.

Something struck my about the placement of the emeralds regarding Cersei - interesting that Cersei thinks she will be strangled by her valonquar - hense emeralds around her neck. (As you mentioned with Renly) I wonder if Jaime is always present when she has emeralds around her neck?

Cersei tears up the royal decree by King Robert when Ned is placed as Regent - this time her hands are used to weild/usurp power - hense wearing emerald ring on her hands.

Wearing a belt of emeralds around her waist - she did birth a bastard(s) who unwittingly usurped the throne ....(or using sex to get what she wants) Funny how this is mentioned with Tyrion around who thinks Cersei's thighs are the best part of her...

And wearing tiaras with emeralds or emeralds in her hair - a sign that she is still plotting to keep the throne?.

[J. Stargaryen]

Great analysis, I always like reading your OPs.

Something struck my about the placement of the emeralds regarding Cersei - interesting that Cersei thinks she will be strangled by her valonquar - hense emeralds around her neck. (As you mentioned with Renly)

Cersei tears up the royal decree by King Robert when Ned is placed as Regent - this time her hands are used to weild/usurp power - hense wearing emerald ring on her hands.

Wearing a belt of emeralds around her waist - she did birth a bastard who unwittingly usurped the throne ....(or using sex to get what she wants)

Thanks. :)

Those are all good points regarding the placement of the emeralds. I was going to look at them eventually because it seems like their location could be relevant for sure.

I attempted something very similar not long ago:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99334-no-emerald-code/#entry5113885

I could find no discernible "Emerald Code" at least one not as strong as the Sapphire Code. My hat is off to you for identifying some broad potential themes.

My first reaction was to think this even weaker than the Ruby Code.... but I am starting to come around a little bit. Though isn't everyone really a usurper in this series?

The hang ups I have are a few scenes that appear to have nothing to to with usurpation, Lannisters etc...For instance, Jon Snow north of the Wall... what does that have to do with Blackwater? I wondered if that was the same chapter Chett began his conspiracy against LC Mormont....but it isn't...

I also have concerns about Pycelle's emerald and the knight in the HOTU.

Euron and Xaro also don't seem to quite fit.

However, I would love to see the Dany emerald instances revisited after the Princess and the Queen comes out.

I am intrigued and would like to see how this plays out in the long run... especially the idea of Red, Green and Blue dynasties. However, if the sapphire code is correct that a deception is being perpetrated and you are correct that Jon Snow leads the Blye Dynasty... then R+L=J!

No, not everyone is a usurper in the series.

The Jon Snow mention with emeralds is just the author repeating the green & black motif, which is foreshadowing for the BotB. And the Lannisters... they stole the throne. If you look at which ones are said to have emerald green eyes and when, it's pretty compelling.

What's the problem with the Pycelle mention? He's been the Grand Maester for two dynasties: Targaryen and Baratheon.

Euron bought the crown of the Iron Islands. The best known claimant was Asha. As for Xaro, doesn't he work to unseat Dany as Queen of Meereen?

[Lord Martin]

Thanks. :)

Those are all good points regarding the placement of the emeralds. I was going to look at them eventually because it seems like their location could be relevant for sure.

No, not everyone is a usurper in the series.

The Jon Snow mention with emeralds is just the author repeating the green & black motif, which is foreshadowing for the BotB. And the Lannisters... they stole the throne. If you look at which ones are said to have emerald green eyes and when, it's pretty compelling.

What's the problem with the Pycelle mention? He's been the Grand Maester for two dynasties: Targaryen and Baratheon.

Euron bought the crown of the Iron Islands. The best known claimant was Asha. As for Xaro, doesn't he work to unseat Dany as Queen of Meereen?

You know what... I'm going to come around on this. A little bit still bothers me.... but this the best I've seen on emeralds and goes well beyond what I could come up with on my own....my hat is off to you despite some qualms at the end of my post.

A few twists or additions I see:

If you bring it back to the greens and the blacks...the Princess work black and red, the true colors of House Targaryen while the Queen wore green, the color of usurpation. Fits nicely.

Lannisters wear green quite often for a family whose colors are gold and red, so the Lannister ones work for me. I agree, the timing on when the eyes are called emeralds for the first time is pretty significant. When we see them as king or attempted queen for the first time.

As for Pycelle, if the Ruby Code gets brought in... its a double whammy. He served the Targ Kings, the real rubies, but he helped usurp them (emerald) for fake rubies (Lannisters). So I can get on board there.

In BoTB, Stannis, the rightful King comes up the "black" water and is repelled by emerald green fire. I'm on board there too... I'd also note Stannis' stag is black on the chalice... again a partial color of the rightful King. The Tyrells also stole Renly's green armor as part of their usurpation of Stannis' claim.

As for Euron, this would support the idea he paid a FM to kill King Balon. I prefer that to the idea he usurped Asha or Theon but I guess that fits in there too.

Xaro is a harder sell for me... but if you throw the Green Grace in there as the Harpy... I tend to like that a little bit better. Though I'm not sure Dany's queenship is "rightful." But now I really won't be shocked if the GG takes over Mereen once Dany leaves.

The HOTU, I think is an attempted usurpation of Dany is some ways... its a bit of a stretch, but it fits the concept generally.

If you've read the D&E stories, the Green Apple Fossoways break off from the Red. Not quite usurpation but similar.

I'm still not wild about the Jon Snow thing. I get the color symmetries with black and green, but I'm not sure it rises to the level of a foreshadow. If anything, perhaps it foreshadows the mutiny at Craster's keep. Certainly that was a form of usurpation. But I don't see how it relates to TBOB at all beyond similar color schemes. But one instance shouldn't ruin it...

My biggest issue on all of this is that the concept of usurpation or the improper seizing of power is rampant in the series. I still think that just about every player in the game is a usurper of sorts from the right perspective. Yes the Lannisters often wear Emeralds... but maybe they really just like matching their eye color? Same for the Baratheons...

And if we are going to extend green/emerald = usurpation to the allies of usurpers then we really cover most houses. That's how Tyrell gets in with the emerald rose right? And whose more of a usurper, Florents or Tyrells? Ask one of each and you'd get different answers.

I mean if for some reason we saw the Greatjon wearing an emerald we could say, he proclaimed Robb King in the North, that was a usurpation of the iron throne so it fits. The same would be true of any Northern Lord or Riverlord there, Glover, Mormont etc...

If any Lannister supporter wears emerald, it fits as well... same for any of Euron's men or Victarion's men. That's 5 of the geographic regions right there. Dorne has its own plots which could be viewed as a usurpation of power. The Crownlands are loyal to the Lannisters so if Bronn or the late Gyles Rosby were seen with emeralds, the concept would hold true once again.

Balon Greyjoy and Robb Stark were usurpers but never garbed in emerald. Roose Bolton is a usurper of the Lord Paramount position in the North and of Winterfell. Littlefinger is a usurper as well. So any instance of emerald remotely near them would be sufficient to fit the theme.

Hence, I don't know what to make of Illyrio's emeralds... he could be attempting a usurpation (emerald) or is the ruby in control of Illyrio's motives (targ) is the onyx for house Blackfyre? Or is it Black because he will put the proper king back on the throne (the blacks = Aegon VI, nice parallel to Aegon III)? Do the Sapphires mean its all a lie? And what of the jet and jade? Are they different from Onyx and Emerald?

I'm not saying the color theme is wrong, its clearly correct. I guess my issue is that usurpation is so constant in the series, it'd sort of be like saying, anytime a trencher appears in the story, someone is eating....

As I said, Kudos on a job very well done... I'd love to see the theory fleshed out in future books for sure.

[J. Stargaryen]

Regarding Euron, you may be right. Let's take another look at that passage:

“Your uncle bought him,” Tris said. “The Silence returned with holds full of treasure. Plate and pearls, emeralds and rubies, sapphires big as eggs, bags of coin so heavy that no man can lift them... the Crow’s Eye has been buying friends at every hand. My uncle Germund calls himself Lord Botley now, and rules in Lordsport as your uncle’s man.”

- The Kraken's Daughter

If the emeralds symbolize a usurpation of Balon specifically, you could point to the sapphires big as eggs part as a clue to support that. Since, I believe, it is a popular theory that Euron paid the FM to kill Balon with a dragon's egg. Combine that with sapphires = secrets. On the other hand, it may be hinting at both interpretations.

Concerning Illyrio's rings, I'd say that (f)Aegon = green, actually. The person with the better claim = black. On the other hand, the real Aegon would have a better claim than Dany, so I'm not sure yet how we are supposed to take that. The audience may realize that (f)Aegon is a fake, but will the people of Westeros? Then again, in the BotB the "greens" were the Lannisters and only the audience knew for sure that Joffrey, etc. were bastards.

Robb as a usurper is interesting. When you look at it, he didn't declare himself king, it was actually his bannermen. So there is some room for debate there, but it's interesting that it ends up being a big ordeal for him to cross the Green Fork. He ends up having to make a deal with the Devil Walder Frey in order to do so. I wonder if this could benefit from deeper analysis.

[Newstar]

Love it, OP. Great work.

Another thread got into the negative associations the colour green carried in Dany's arc; it seemed to be associated with those who sought to harm her. If the green/black combination signals dynastic conflict, with the green marking the usurper, then that would certainly carry a negative association for Dany as well.

what to make of Dany's dragons. One Black, one White, one Green. Green one for usurper, white one for the "peace bringer," and black for the conqueror?

Could be that Viserion is the dragon that gets killed off, leaving a black dragon and a green one for the Dance.

That Tyrion's eyes match the green/black combination associated with dynastic conflict suggests that he'll be pivotal in what we imagine will be the upcoming Aegon/Dany clash. Heck, in persuading Aegon to head to Westeros rather than to Dany, he's already proven pivotal. Does the fact that he has an eye of each colour mean that he'll have a foot in each camp?

[J. Stargaryen]

Love it, OP. Great work.

Another thread got into the negative associations the colour green carried in Dany's arc; it seemed to be associated with those who sought to harm her. If the green/black combination signals dynastic conflict, with the green marking the usurper, then that would certainly carry a negative association for Dany as well.

Could be that Viserion is the dragon that gets killed off, leaving a black dragon and a green one for the Dance.

That Tyrion's eyes match the green/black combination associated with dynastic conflict suggests that he'll be pivotal in what we imagine will be the upcoming Aegon/Dany clash. Heck, in persuading Aegon to head to Westeros rather than to Dany, he's already proven pivotal. Does the fact that he has an eye of each colour mean that he'll have a foot in each camp?

Thanks. :)

What's interesting is that the idea of 'usurping' can really be a matter of your POV. For example, if YG is not the real Aegon, then he would be usurping Dany's claim, making him the green and her the black. But, if she ends up doing battle with Jon, then the tables are suddenly reversed. And, wouldn't you know it, but Jon already has some pretty strong associations with the color black.

As for Tyrion, I've been saying that the green/black eyes have to do with his own family, but it makes just as much sense, maybe more, that it deals with the upcoming DotD2.

[The 6th Stark]

This is great JStar, very nicely done. I especially love the link to the 3 forks. If a major Stark event does go down at the blue fork, I wonder if blue eyed Benjie will be there. Not to derail this excellent conversation with where benjen may be, which IMO is ANYwhere.

[Lord Martin]

Should be aware of the Reeds mossy green eyes?

Or are green dreams their own thing?

Mayhaps by the end of the series we'll be saying the Walders were right about those frog eaters!

[J. Stargaryen]

This is great JStar, very nicely done. I especially love the link to the 3 forks. If a major Stark event does go down at the blue fork, I wonder if blue eyed Benjie will be there. Not to derail this excellent conversation with where benjen may be, which IMO is ANYwhere.

Thanks. The links to the three forks of the Trident was probably the most exciting discovery for me. I think it validated what Yolkboy and I have been posting about. They're not just three isolated 'code' threads. The meaning is deeper than that, and now – with the addition of the emerald and Trident analysis – I was able to make a prediction which lines up nicely with what we know so far; i.e., the appearance of a new dynasty, specifically House Stark.

Regarding Benjen, I think if we see him at all it's likely to be north of the Wall. I wonder if his naturally blue-grey eyes – instead of the usual Stark grey – are a hint that he will turn up as a Wight later on. Otoh, it could just be for the sake of variety.

Should be aware of the Reeds mossy green eyes?

Or are green dreams their own thing?

Mayhaps by the end of the series we'll be saying the Walders were right about those frog eaters!

I don't think the green eyes of the Reeds means they're usurpers or anything like that. I think the color trio probably works on a couple of different levels; one being political and the other being... elemental maybe? I think the color green, as it relates to the Reeds, probably hints at their association with nature, or something along those lines.

[Lyse Stark]

Thanks. :)

What's interesting is that the idea of 'usurping' can really be a matter of your POV. For example, if YG is not the real Aegon, then he would be usurping Dany's claim, making him the green and her the black. But, if she ends up doing battle with Jon, then the tables are suddenly reversed. And, wouldn't you know it, but Jon already has some pretty strong associations with the color black.

As for Tyrion, I've been saying that the green/black eyes have to do with his own family, but it makes just as much sense, maybe more, that it deals with the upcoming DotD2.

Yes the dead and black part in Ned's flashback to Lyanna's death and Jon Snow saying that black was always his color. I wouldn't be surprised if the Blue fork cements Jon 's dynasty, and Jon wearing black also has significance as he is the Targaryen's rightful heir.

[J. Stargaryen]

Yes the dead and black part in Ned's flashback to Lyanna's death and Jon Snow saying that black was always his color. I wouldn't be surprised if the Blue fork cements Jon 's dynasty, and Jon wearing black also has significance as he is the Targaryen's rightful heir.

Exactly. These are both good examples. :thumbsup: