Dead women do tell tales. Lyanna's ghost in the crypts of Winterfell.

[Mdoggy]

So there has been alot of speculation on what is in Lyanna's tomb in Winterfell's crypts.

Here are some common theories followed by my theory

*This theory assumes R+L=J*

The main theories I have are (no particular order):

1: Dark Sister the sword. If R was trying to recreate the original 3 conquering Targs he expected Jon to be Viseyna. Her sword was Dark Sister. It makes sense if it was possible, R would give it to Visyena reborn.

2: A dragon egg. Since all Targ princes get a dragon egg in their cradle people suspect there is a dragon egg in Lyanna's tomb proving she had a Targ kid. well kinda..

3: A letter. (not sure how it would have fared in the crypts though) It would reveal Jon's true parentage

4: Rheagar's harp(my personal favorite) Rheagar took his silver harp everywhere. If Lyanna was buried with it, it probably symbolizes that they were in love

5: A targ Marrige cloak (not sure if there was a Septon at the ToJ to marry L and R but who knows)

6: Other things I cant remember off the top of my head

Out of all the topics about Lyanna's tomb i have read, It seems most people forget one key fact:

Lyanna is most likely in her tomb. Her bones are there just like the bones of the Stark Kings yet unlike them she has no sword to keep her soul from wandering. Maybe she has no sword because she is waiting for Jon?

Jon has a recurring dream where Winterfell is empty and he is called down into the crypts. He screams he is not a stark and that the crypts were not his place but he has to go down anyway. He always wakes up before he reaches the crypts.

So what is down there calling him? Maybe its Lyanna's ghost. There have been numerous dreams about ghosts in Winterfell's crypts so shouldnt Lyanna be there too?

Now that Jon is unconscious/dead he will be forced to finish the dream.

he will descend into the crypts expecting evil spirits but find his mother's ghost instead.

If any of the objects people usually assume were found in the crypt, it would prove Ly went willingly not that Ly had a kid. Lyanna's ghost telling Jon however would let Jon know his true parentage.

In my opinion i think he will remain a bastard but instead of Ned's bastard he will be Rheagar and Lyanna's bastard. It would be better that way IMO. He finds out he might be pre-qualified to ride a Dragon but he still cant inherit anything.

So Lyanna in the crypts? What do you guys think?

[sarah.jenice]

Maybe Jamie's dream with his mom talking to him was a set up for this to happen.

Whether it's Lyanna or Bran, someone is going to tell Jon who he really is while he's warging Ghost.

As for proving he's legit, it probably won't matter because if Jon fights and wins this war, he will win the kingdoms by right of conquest rather than birth. I think he will be able to choose whether he wants to keep his identity to himself or not.

[Mdoggy]

I think he will find out through a vision or something along those lines. If you declare that you are a prince people will ask why. When all you have for proof is "the ghost of my dead mother spoke to me" Some might not be convinced.

so I think he will find out but be forced to keep it to himself because he lacks real material proof

[Mdoggy]

There could be other things in the tomb too

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Didn't GRRM say it doesn't have to be a Targ riding the dragons?

Love the theory btw just curious because I always see on the forums "so n so is a Targ & can therefore ride a dragon" and am always confused why people say that because I'm almost positive GRRM said it didn't have to be a Targ. Maybe I am mistaken though

[Mdoggy]

i think it would make a nice consilation prize.

"Hey you are in fact a rheagar's son" said Lyanna to Jon

Jon says "Sweet! does that mean i am king?"

Ly goes "lol nope your a royal bastard i was never married to him"

Jon goes "so what is the point of me being Rheagar's son? This seems like a useless plot development"

Ly goes "but it is easier for you to ride dragons"

Jon goes" coolio im in"

[QueenSansaLannister]

I don't think Jon will find out who his father is through Lyanna. I think he will likely find out either through Bran (who will have found out through the "weirnet") or through Howland Reed, who's been absent for far too long and I hope will appear at some point in TWOW. If he doesn't tell Jon who his parents are, what was the point of him surviving the TOJ? I suppose it could be to have a witness to his parentage...but the words of a crannogman are worth less than nothing in the eyes of the rest of the realm, particularly in the south. I think it will likely be Howland who tells Jon.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

6: Other things I cant remember off the top of my head

a crown

[Fire Eater]

I think it is Rhaegar's harp. He played it at feasts and tourneys, even Jorah saw it. He likely left it at the ToJ as he wasn't going to bring it with him as he went off to war.

A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.

Giving a sword, Blackfyre, to Daemon led to the claim that Aegon IV intended Daemon to be his heir. I think Rhaegar's harp in Lyanna's tomb may be used as proof of Jon's heritage.

The mention of dreams reminded him. “I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”
“And why was that?” Luwin peered through his tube.
“It was something to do about Jon, I think.” The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.

From Bran's dream, we can assume that Ned is waiting down there to tell Jon the truth of his heritage.

[BearQueen87]

I also this it's Rhaegar's harp (and maybe a marriage cloak).

However a harp isn't enough to convince Jon. I think someone will learn the truth (my pics are Sam or Bran) or Howland Reed comes into the story if Jojen dies and one of these people tells Jon a little bit more about the events that are still really unclear to us. Jon doesn't believe but he goes to investigate the crypt, remembering his dreams from aGoT. That's when he'll open Lyanna's tomb and find (hopefully) the harp and maybe cloak.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

The dragon egg actually would prove there was at least a pregnancy. There's no reason Rhaegar would have left an egg with Lyanna unless she was carrying his child.

A wedding cloak with the dragon egg would imply legitimacy.

And finally, the harp.

The dragon has three heads, the tomb has three Targ items.

[jet199]

...or Lyanna's bones could have weirwood roots growing around them.

She shows up in a dream with tears of blood like a weirwood.

Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. “Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.

[Uldra I]

I think it is Rhaegar's harp. He played it at feasts and tourneys, even Jorah saw it. He likely left it at the ToJ as he wasn't going to bring it with him as he went off to war.

A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.

Giving a sword, Blackfyre, to Daemon led to the claim that Aegon IV intended Daemon to be his heir. I think Rhaegar's harp in Lyanna's tomb may be used as proof of Jon's heritage.

The mention of dreams reminded him. “I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”

“And why was that?” Luwin peered through his tube.

“It was something to do about Jon, I think.” The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.

From Bran's dream, we can assume that Ned is waiting down there to tell Jon the truth of his heritage.

nice catch! I kept thinking Neds ghost would be in the crypt when Jon finally goes there because the last time Ned saw Jon he promised to tell him about his mother. Bran & Rickon dreamed of Neds ghost and then went down into the crypts to talk with him. When Bran & co. left the crypts to head north they took the swords from Ned's statue, Brandon's, and Rickard's as well. If the legend about the swords holding the ghost with the bones is true, then taking the swords would've freed the ghosts. I had forgotten about Bran being told that Ned was sad about something to do with Jon. Maybe, Ned was sad that he never got to tell him about his mother. I also think Ned's ghost will be the one to tell him. Imo that doesn't mean he won't see Lyanna's ghost as well. I also believe that something important has to be hidden in her crypt.

ETA: Can't really picture Jon just opening tombs to look inside out of curiosity. That seems just too out of character for him unless someone, perhaps Ned or Lyanna, tells him there is something important for him to get out of one.

[Vangelis Matos Medina]

I fought maybe Howland Reed could tell Jon.
This guy was very close to Ned and until now has done nothing, he must have a major role......

[Ygrain]

If Lyanna was not married to Rhaegar, why does the mention of his honour evoke Promise me?

“What did any Targaryen ever know of honor? Go down into your crypt and ask Lyanna about the dragon’s honor!”

“You avenged Lyanna at the Trident,” Ned said, halting beside the king. Promise me, Ned, she had whispered.

[Mdoggy]

I think Rheagar wanted to marry her but without a Septon or a godswood near the ToJ that does not seem possible

[Ygrain]

I think Rheagar wanted to marry her but without a Septon or a godswood near the ToJ that does not seem possible

Why near ToJ? We have a very special weirwood island right next to Harrenhal, and a travelling septon in the Riverlands.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think it is Rhaegar's harp. He played it at feasts and tourneys, even Jorah saw it. He likely left it at the ToJ as he wasn't going to bring it with him as he went off to war.

A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.

Giving a sword, Blackfyre, to Daemon led to the claim that Aegon IV intended Daemon to be his heir. I think Rhaegar's harp in Lyanna's tomb may be used as proof of Jon's heritage.

The mention of dreams reminded him. “I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”

“And why was that?” Luwin peered through his tube.

“It was something to do about Jon, I think.” The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.

From Bran's dream, we can assume that Ned is waiting down there to tell Jon the truth of his heritage.

Ya know, I like the fact the Jon has LongClaw, I dont think he needs another sword. Longclaw is like him, from Valyria but has also been in the north for 5 centuries, doing deeds in the North and living in a northern families house. Longclaw was there before Aegon landed on Dragonstone. Just like The Starks were in Westeros before the Targaryens. LongClaw is the perfect sword for Jon :)

[BearQueen87]

I think Rheagar wanted to marry her but without a Septon or a godswood near the ToJ that does not seem possible

I don't think Rhaegar would take the chance of having his third child--necessary to the prophecy--be born as a bastard. If he and Lyanna had not married, the baby she bore would be just that. He might legitimize the babe, but I think Rhaegar knew that marraige was the best way to go for him and Lyanna and their child.

Of course, he loved her too, so that helps.

And like Ygrin said, there were other options. Find a septon somewhere or a weirwood and *tada* married.

[Ygrain]

Ya know, I like the fact the Jon has LongClaw, I dont think he needs another sword. Longclaw is like him, from Valyria but has also been in the north for 5 centuries, doing deeds in the North and living in a northern families house. Longclaw was there before Aegon landed on Dragonstone. Just like The Starks were in Westeros before the Targaryens. LongClaw is the perfect sword for Jon :)

But it is Ice that he wanted. I think Jon may be given a couple more swords, because "no matter how many swords they give me", he will be Ned's son :D

I don't think Rhaegar would take the chance of having his third child--necessary to the prophecy--be born as a bastard. If he and Lyanna had not married, the baby she bore would be just that. He might legitimize the babe, but I think Rhaegar knew that marraige was the best way to go for him and Lyanna and their child.

Of course, he loved her too, so that helps.

And like Ygrin said, there were other options. Find a septon somewhere or a weirwood and *tada* married.

Plus, Rhaegar was honourable, and fathering a bastard on the love of his life is definitely not honourable.