US Politics: Check with a Court before you see your Doctor

[lokisnow]

Reagan explains our prisons being overpopulated with drug offenders.

[Shryke]

Oh look, it happened again:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/arizona-inmate-dies-hours-execution-began-24687447

A condemned Arizona inmate gasped and snorted for more than an hour and a half during his execution Wednesday before he died in an episode sure to add to the scrutiny surrounding the death penalty in the U.S.

Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne's office said Joseph Rudolph Wood was pronounced dead at 3:49 p.m., one hour and 57 minutes after the execution started.

Wood's lawyers had filed an emergency appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court while the execution was underway, demanding that it be stopped. The appeal said Wood was "gasping and snorting for more than an hour."

Word that Justice Anthony Kennedy denied the appeal came about a half hour after Wood's death.

Oh America, you barbaric fuckers.

[Fez]

I have no doubt such instances exist, but that doesn't explain our prisons being overpopulated with drug offenders.

It surely not the only factor, but you asked how sentencers could profit, and there you go.

[TrackerNeil]

I'm suddenly reminded of a few months ago when Bazelon and Lithwick, two liberal lawyer witches I respect the hell out of, where trying to argue that RBG didn't owe anyone anything and could retire when she damned well pleased. I most respectfully, again, disagree. Sure, one might argue that choosing when to retire is also a somewhat political act, but it's small potatoes compared to what is on the line.

Yeah, I disagreed with Lithwick/Bazelon on this as well. Sure, Ginsberg is free to retire whenever she wants, but let's not pretend that her choice is not political. It's eminently political. She can either choose to be replaced by a Democratic president, or she can roll the dice on whomever replaces Obama in 2017, and that will matter very much.

Honestly, I wish we could all drop the pretense that federal judges are not politicians. First, you don't get on a short list for nomination unless you have the favor of the party in the White House, and you get there by...being a politician. Second, judges influence policy and that's the job of...a politician. Admittedly, a Supreme Court judge is not equivalent to a US senator, but they are both involved in party politics and in setting and revising policy. It's time we all stopped pretending otherwise.

[Inigima]

Oh look, it happened again:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/arizona-inmate-dies-hours-execution-began-24687447

Oh America, you barbaric fuckers.

I really don't understand what else we have to do for our executions to be considered cruel and unusual.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The whole execution dilemma perplexes me.

We all know that even general anesthetics will kill you if you just get the dosage wrong. That's why you need an anesthetist to be present throughout any surgery etc.

And as anyone who has ever had to undergo a procedure involving general anesthetics will tell you, it is utterly painless.

So why do they dream up all these weird concoctions to knock off death penalty recipients? Why not just use an overdose of general anesthetics - or some variant thereof - and it will be quick and utterly painless?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Honestly, I wish we could all drop the pretense that federal judges are not politicians. First, you don't get on a short list for nomination unless you have the favor of the party in the White House, and you get there by...being a politician. Second, judges influence policy and that's the job of...a politician. Admittedly, a Supreme Court judge is not equivalent to a US senator, but they are both involved in party politics and in setting and revising policy. It's time we all stopped pretending otherwise.

Oh, it's worse than that. The US Supreme Court are politicians who serve for as long as they want, with no accountability to anyone for their decisions. Reagan still influences policy from beyond the grave via Scalia, and there is nothing anyone can (realistically) do about it.

[Fez]

The whole execution dilemma perplexes me.

We all know that even general anesthetics will kill you if you just get the dosage wrong. That's why you need an anesthetist to be present throughout any surgery etc.

And as anyone who has ever had to undergo a procedure involving general anesthetics will tell you, it is utterly painless.

So why do they dream up all these weird concoctions to knock off death penalty recipients? Why not just use an overdose of general anesthetics - or some variant thereof - and it will be quick and utterly painless?

Because an awful lot of anesthetics involve compounds created by European companies, most of whom have a longstanding policy of refusing to sell their products if they will be used in an execution.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Because an awful lot of anesthetics involve compounds created by European companies, most of whom have a longstanding policy of refusing to sell their products if they will be used in an execution.

Aha! Well then we know where to lay the blame for the poor convicted murderer's suffering, don't we.

Case resolved.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Aha! Well then we know where to lay the blame for the poor convicted murderer's suffering, don't we.

Case resolved.

So we're blaming the countries that refuse to take part in this atrocity, not the country perpetuating it?

At the risk of invoking Godwins Law, I now have this image of the Nazis arguing "of course we used gas. Other countries refused to supply us with enough bullets, so the suffering in the gas chambers is entirely their fault!"

[SeanF]

Aha! Well then we know where to lay the blame for the poor convicted murderer's suffering, don't we.

Case resolved.

Wouldn't it be simpler and more humane just to hang them?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Wouldn't it be simpler and more humane just to hang them?

Long drop hanging is probably the most humane method available (given the long run dispute about the guillotine). I've never been quite sure why the US decided to favour other methods.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Wouldn't it be simpler and more humane just to hang them?

I have no idea. I would think hanging involves some pain, although if the neck is broken it probably is rather quick and painless. If I recall correctly from the grainy Saddam Hussain execution video, the whole thing went down rather quickly.

So maybe you're right. Hang 'em high then!

[The Marquis de Leech]

The idea with long drop hanging is that the rope is long enough to break the neck, but not long enough that the head flies off. There were tables drawn up in the 19th Century UK, specifying rope length vs prisoner weight.

[Fez]

Wouldn't it be simpler and more humane just to hang them?

Hangings are tricky too though. If you do it right, its supposed to be quick and painless (neck breaking); but if you do it wrong, its a drawn-out painful process (strangulation). Also, apparently if you do things too right, you decapitate the person; and no one wants that mess.

Personally, I'd think the most humane would be firing squad; if we're going to do anything at all (which I don't).

I think we don't do either anymore though because they don't look "science-y" enough, they look too barbaric and remind people of what is actually happening; someone's getting killed.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Hangings are tricky too though. If you do it right, its supposed to be quick and painless (neck breaking); but if you do it wrong, its a drawn-out painful process (strangulation). Also, apparently if you do things too right, you decapitate the person; and no one wants that mess.

Personally, I'd think the most humane would be firing squad; if we're going to do anything at all (which I don't).

I think we don't do either anymore though because they don't look "science-y" enough, they look too barbaric and remind people of what is actually happening; someone's getting killed.

Yeah. Personally, I cannot think of a "modern" method that could be more painful than the old electric chair. For goodness sake. You are basically frying the guy to death. Whoever came up with that idea must have been a real good salesman, or else the lawmakers were just sadists.

[Shryke]

Long drop hanging is probably the most humane method available (given the long run dispute about the guillotine). I've never been quite sure why the US decided to favour other methods.

Because lethal injection gives the illusion of being humane. They just go to sleep.

I mean, there's actually no research on how the random ass drug cocktails they've been using since capital punishment actually works on the body or whether it's actually painless because the whole system was designed by people throwing shit together because the medical profession wants nothing to do with this.

But it looks better. Hanging looks barbaric. Wouldn't want anyone to notice what's actually going on after all.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Strangulation occurs with an insufficient drop. And, yes, that's torture. Albert Pierrepoint, the senior British executioner at Nuremberg, was scathing about the incompetence of the American hangmen.

As for firing squad: people can miss. In which case, you've got another nasty situation on your hands (the favoured execution method for criminals in the old Eastern bloc was a single shot to the back of the head, which is probably better than an actual squad shooting you from a distance).

[SeanF]

Thankfully, the electric chair has been abandoned, which sometimes resulted in people being burned alive.

The UK used the long drop in the Twentieth century, and that was very quick.

[Maithanet]

Really, if you want a foolproof method of execution, it is tough to match the guillotine. There are a lot fewer things that can go wrong, as opposed to shooting or hanging someone, and it is as painless as any execution can be. But the guillotine has some unfortunate baggage that goes along with it.