Archmaester Drew Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 There is more than one way to skin a cat... Who is Tommen Baratheon's rightful heir? If you follow Andal Law it would seem to be Myrcella, but if you follow the Targaryen/Valyrian traditions it could be Stannis! See this thread for an interesting account of succession laws: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/115834-contemplating-targaryen-succession/ So, who is the rightful heir? (Note: No cats were harmed in the making of this thread, particularly not Ser Pounce!) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Why would you follow Targaryen law? The Baratheons are andals. Myrcella is the heir for what its worth, which is not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Myrcella is heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Why would you follow Targaryen law? The Baratheons are andals. Myrcella is the heir for what its worth, which is not much. Because the Realm was united by Targaryens and rule by their law for nearly 300 years; and Robert claimed the kingship by right of conquest, but was also legitimized through his Targaryen grandmother, Rhaelle Baratheon (nee Targaryen). The Baratheons are NOT Andals. Orys Baratheon was Aegon's General, and possibly his bastard brother. He conquered the Storm King and married his daughter to secure the Stormlands. That's why! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Vaes Tolorro Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Trick Question!Tommen himself isn't a rightful king, so he has no rightful heirs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Because the Realm was united by Targaryens and rule by their law for nearly 300 years; and Robert claimed the kingship by right of conquest, but was also legitimized through his Targaryen grandmother, Rhaelle Baratheon (nee Targaryen). That's why! :) The Targayren ancestry was just a pretext. It was straight up right of conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon the Great Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Myrcella, and then Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Rightful heir? Since he's a Lannister bastard I think it would go Myrcella -> Jaime -> Cersei -> Tyrion. From there it would either go to Gerion or Lancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ordinarily it would be Stannis, if they were still following Targaryen custom (the books never specify but for what it's worth, the show on two occasions explains succession as following the Targ custom). However, Stannis has almost certainly been attainted by the government in King's Landing and removed from succession. As such, Myrcella would be recognized as Tommen's heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It's Myrcella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Myrcella either way, since Stannis is disinherited due to being traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ordinarily it would be Stannis, if they were still following Targaryen custom (the books never specify but for what it's worth, the show on two occasions explains succession as following the Targ custom). However, Stannis has almost certainly been attainted by the government in King's Landing and removed from succession. As such, Myrcella would be recognized as Stannis's heir. Ah, yes! Of course. (I'm still new here.) Well, I'm just trying to get some kind of friendly debate going on this forum, but somebody's always got the answer! Oh well, back to vacuous 'what's your favorite fill-in-the-blank' posts... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ah, yes! Of course. (I'm still new here.) Well, I'm just trying to get some kind of friendly debate going on this forum, but somebody's always got the answer! Oh well, back to vacuous 'what's your favorite fill-in-the-blank' posts... ;) Don't worry about that. Let's consider that Tommen lives enough to sire sons and he actually wins and keeps the throne, then his sons go first and later, Myrcella. She is also the current lady of Storm's End, I suppose, while Cersei goes for CR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Because the Realm was united by Targaryens and rule by their law for nearly 300 years; and Robert claimed the kingship by right of conquest, but was also legitimized through his Targaryen grandmother, Rhaelle Baratheon (nee Targaryen). The Baratheons are NOT Andals. Orys Baratheon was Aegon's General, and possibly his bastard brother. He conquered the Storm King and married his daughter to secure the Stormlands. That's why! :) Robert didn't style himself a Targaryen. It's a completely new dynasty. The Targaryen blood was just a way of giving the Targaryen supporters a bone. He was, by far, the worst of the choices to be king, if we assume the pool is Hoster, Jon, Ned, and Robert (maybe Tywin). And the Baratheons are definitely Andals. Orys might not have been an Andal, but the Durrandons were. The Baratheons had also been intermarrying with other Andal houses for 300 years since AL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ordinarily it would be Stannis, if they were still following Targaryen custom (the books never specify but for what it's worth, the show on two occasions explains succession as following the Targ custom). However, Stannis has almost certainly been attainted by the government in King's Landing and removed from succession. As such, Myrcella would be recognized as Tommen's heir. Apparently not. The High Septon was relieved when Cersei denied the accusations of incest because that would mean Stannis is the rightful King. Myrcella is Tommen "Baratheon's" heir as a daughter comes before a brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Apparently not. The High Septon was relieved when Cersei denied the accusations of incest because that would mean Stannis is the rightful King. Myrcella is Tommen "Baratheon's" heir as a daughter comes before a brother.Fair enough. I do have to wonder where D&D got their notion otherwise, since both of the instances in which the explanation occurs can only be called an info dump, especially where Sansa and her septa are concerned. I'm also not sure the septon's worry says what you think it does. Cersei's incest would invalidate BOTH Tommen and Myrcella and make Stannis the rightful king. That's independent of whether Stannis or Myrcella would be Tommen's heir. And if the incest is a lie, then Stannis is still attainted and out of the succession regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ooops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Officially, it's Myrcella. A sister comes before an uncle / a daughter of king Robert comes before his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Fair enough. I do have to wonder where D&D got their notion otherwise, since both of the instances in which the explanation occurs can only be called an info dump, especially where Sansa and her septa are concerned.I'm also not sure the septon's worry says what you think it does. Cersei's incest would invalidate BOTH Tommen and Myrcella and make Stannis the rightful king. That's independent of whether Stannis or Myrcella would be Tommen's heir. And if the incest is a lie, then Stannis is still attainted and out of the succession regardless.I'm not sure you get what I'm saying. If Tommen is taken as a Baratheon, Myrcella would be his heir and Stannis would be her heir. But the High Septon being relieved that Cersei denied commiting incest, is probably because Stannis would be the rightful King and he's taken up the Fire God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm also not sure the septon's worry says what you think it does. Cersei's incest would invalidate BOTH Tommen and Myrcella and make Stannis the rightful king. That's independent of whether Stannis or Myrcella would be Tommen's heir. And if the incest is a lie, then Stannis is still attainted and out of the succession regardless. Oh, certainly if it was accepted they were bastards & not the king's it is game over for them in every way. In fact, even if they were bastards but Robert was really their father, they would still officially fall behind any trueborn claimants (unless legitimized by Robert before he died). However, power has a way of bending the public truth to be what it wants, so that's why there is even a Baratheon versus some "Baratheons" in the first place. I'm not sure you get what I'm saying. If Tommen is taken as a Baratheon, Myrcella would be his heir and Stannis would be her heir. But the High Septon being relieved that Cersei denied commiting incest, is probably because Stannis would be the rightful King and he's taken up the Fire God. Yes, this is true. The Faith may have their own reasons why they prefer Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella's assertion be considered true, even contrary to the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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