Let's say Jon survived, what's next?

[Ice Turtle]

I know that a lot of people think that Jon is dead or is dead and will be brought back, but I think that there is enough space to discuss it in another threads. So keep it out of this thread please.

Let's assume Jon did survive, which IMO is likely enough scenario, so what will his storyline be in the next book?

I am almost sure that at least fourth of his arc he will be warging Ghost, licking his wounds and dealing with fArya situation. I do not think he will learn she was a fake anytime soon.

I believe that he will be out too long to participate in Stannis/Bolton fight. He will have to deal with with afterwards of fight between his attackers and wildlings, but in the end I think that he will came to conclusion that the watch is no longer a place for him (or that he had to do more) and somewhere around the end of second third of the book Robb's will will came to play. Towards the end he may start to intersect with Vale or South storyline.

Though, I have to say that this scenario has some trouble putting Stannis. From Danny's vision in HoTHU it would seem that she will be the one to kill him, but I can't imagine Stannis and Jon being kings at the same time, or would it be in Jon's diplomatic powers to keep Kingdom of the North separate while allying with Stannis as a rightful king in the South?

What's your opinion?

[Minstral]

In terms of his character I believe he will be altered if he does indeed warg ghost and then come back. I have a feeling that GRRM has provided a couple clues of this in the series so far, but especially in ADWD. Looking back to what Jojen said in ACOK that Bran is both himself and part Summer with the opposite also true for the direwolf, makes me think that the warging experience works both ways to an extent. If this is the case then I cannot ignore the fact that for all the good aspects that we have come to associate with he Stark wolves GRRM has now shown in ADWD that these animals eat the human dead and be unapologetic about it. These are animals that need to kill the weak so that the pack they are responsible will survive and grow. Things seem to be abandoned or consumed by necessity.

Then there is the time that Varamyr dies after trying to warg that wilding woman:

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through the carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman dance bland and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. He was in the snow and in the clouds ,he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well. I am the wood, and everything that's in it, he thought, exulting. A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back. A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at the empty air. Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One eye, Sly, Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself.

It is the best depiction of warging that we get, and I feel it will be more informative for Jon and Bran then anything we learn in Varamyr's POV chapter (like eating human meat as a warg being seen as abominable).

[unitron]

Even if we assume that Jon is wounded but not fatally if he gets some immediate medical attention, I think until we know what else happens in the seconds, minutes, and hours that follow our last sighting of him we just don't have enough to go on.

Is there anyone who will be able to quickly restore order or does it turn into a 3 or more way riot, black brothers against black brothers against wildlings against Queensmen? With a chance for Wun Wun to tear a few more people limb from limb? Does the warged boar get in on the act? Jon could wind up actually dying just from getting trampled to death in the confusion.

Or will there be 3 blasts on a horn in the microsecond after Jon's body hits the ground and all of a sudden everyone has a common enemy with which to deal?

[Lord Ross]

Or will there be 3 blasts on a horn in the microsecond after Jon's body hits the ground and all of a sudden everyone has a common enemy with which to deal?

This scenario would fit well with "the wall will stand so long as the night's watch stays true", killing their Lord Commander is a reasonable enough way for them to break this. There is the possibility that the watch tears it's self apart after the assassination on Jon. Which would also fulfill the end of "the night's watch" staying true.

I envisage Jon's friends (not Mel) taking his body to Queen's crown(or somewhere far away), where Jon actually heals, slowly. Whilst spending most of his time in Ghost where he would get to see the wall tearing it's self up and the wildlings revolting against the remaining NW men. This would make him angry and cause him to embrace the wolf side to him, and his warg ability. Eventually the wall gets to a point where the men actually abandon Castle Black and in turn break the magic of the wall allowing the others to cross the wall. At this point Jon re-enters his body and becomes AAR/TPTWP or whatever.

I actually don't think Jon will be given Rhillor's kiss.

[Mithras]

3 days in the ice cells and then when Bowen digs up the ice cells, he will see that Jon's body is missing because Vall will smuggle him out with the help of Wun Wun. Ghost will also be set free by Borroq who will understand that Jon is in the wolf. I think they will take Jon to Whitetree and he will be healed there. On the way, Jon will complete his dream and learn his true parentage. When he wakes up, he will be bitter and depressed but duty will call and he will move on.

[Ice Turtle]

Even if we assume that Jon is wounded but not fatally if he gets some immediate medical attention, I think until we know what else happens in the seconds, minutes, and hours that follow our last sighting of him we just don't have enough to go on.

Is there anyone who will be able to quickly restore order or does it turn into a 3 or more way riot, black brothers against black brothers against wildlings against Queensmen? With a chance for Wun Wun to tear a few more people limb from limb? Does the warged boar get in on the act? Jon could wind up actually dying just from getting trampled to death in the confusion.

Or will there be 3 blasts on a horn in the microsecond after Jon's body hits the ground and all of a sudden everyone has a common enemy with which to deal?

Well I think that we can get some clues if we try to see the bigger picture. Like the whole book, not just a next chapter. Where do you think Jon will be at the end of the TWoW? I don't think he will interfere with Dance Aegon/Dany storyline just yet. But he has to do something for the time of the book and I believe that times of book long travelogues are done. Yet I think that it is too soon for the Others intersecting with political story lines just yet. You can see some liner progress in Jon's arc so far. In the first book, he is a boy, in the second he fully accepts his role as a watchman a a storyline about his first love starts, which is finished in the third book and he becomes a Lord Commarnder. I ADwD we watch him being leader but he is in a way Stannis's subordinate. I think that in the next book we may see them as equal allies before in the end Jon becomes king.

[Julia H.]

I'm firmly in the camp that thinks Jon will survive the attack - just simply survive, without any resurrection. Recovering will probably take some time though. He may be in a coma, which could be a reason for him to spend longer time in Ghost than usual and to start using his warging talent. As for how much darker he will be made by that ... I don't know, having been nearly assassinated by his men will necessarily leave him bitter and disillusioned, but I'm sure he will want to remain the shield that guards the realm - with or without the Night's Watch. I don't think we will see him turn into another Varamyr: Varamyr did not become evil as a result of warging, he was evil even as a child (he killed his own brother, whereas Jon was always helping and protecting his siblings). Varamyr had a warg mentor, Haggon, who tried to instil some basic moral principles in him, which shows that not all wargs are dark or evil creatures. Varamyr has always been selfish, while Jon has been willing to risk his life, die or make other sacrifices for others. I don't think he will be corrupted by warging, even though he will probably have to become more ruthless and pragmatic to achieve his goals, and he is likely to have more blood on his hands.

I think it is also likely that Jon will clash with Ramsay one day (not necessarily right after the assassination attempt). Snow against Snow, two potential lords of Winterfell, both legitimized bastards, therefore also Stark against Bolton, is just too good to miss.

I don't see Jon as Stannis's subordinate in ADWD. Stannis certainly has more power (i.e. more soldiers) at the beginning of the book, but he has to understand that he cannot just give commands to Jon. He would like Jon to bend the knee to him as his subordinate, but since Jon refuses the idea, Stannis accepts him more as a useful ally than anything else.

I agree that the Wall will have to fall at some point, and Jon will have to find new ways to protect the realm. The NW is likely to be doomed anyway as a result of the chaos the assassination attempt has created. One possibility is to unite the North, with Jon taking charge as Ned Stark's and Robb Stark's heir,

Another possibility is that Jon will go North again in search of information about the Others and about ways to fight them.

I can even see Jon turning into an outlaw and a deserter leading an army of wildlings to fight against the Boltons / the Others / whoever. Although that trope has been used with the Brotherhood without banners, Jon's version would be a northern version, so (for the sake of North - South symmetry) not entirely impossible perhaps.

For the moment, I don't see him getting involved in the Dany / Aegon storyline either. (Something must be left to the final book, too.)

Some readers have suggested that in a coma dream, Jon will see his crypt dream to completion and learn about his true parentage. It is possible, but I can also imagine that this discovery will come in the final book only. Or alternatively, Jon will make this discovery in his dream, be deeply disturbed by it, but, seeing no tangible proof either to prove or to disprove the idea, he will just bury the information deep in his mind, at least until something happens (perhaps in the last book) that brings it to the surface again.

[ToTheWolves]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but I kind of hope all hell breaks lose at the wall. I hope The others have reached the wall right as the nightswatch & wildlings are fighting amongst each other.

[sj4iy]

1. I don't think Jon dies.

2. I also think the NW is in severe trouble, and that there's going to be massive fight after his attack.

3. I don't see the ice cells figuring into this whether he's alive or dead...it makes no sense to me.

4. I think Jon will be unconscious and warg Ghost...he might even talk to Bran, who will tell him some important stuff.

After that, who knows? Too much hanging up in the air to really predict.

[shmewdog]

You can be sure that once word reaches Tormund Giantsbane he will be havin' none o'that. Jon was the best insurance to keep the wildlings orderly. I expect a full-on wilding revolt.

Jon is the second sonsecutive Lord Commander to be removed via mutiny. The Night's Watch is no longer true.

[KINGpanther]

Can't see Jon forgiving Marsh. Heads will roll.

Also if Jon discovers he is a Targ I believe he will be pissed off.

[Stannis's birthright]

I believe Jon will survive with out the Fire Kiss . That would be awful . Mel or maybe the Val will heal him . He intercede to stop the fighting at the Wall .. From there it could go either way . The Horn sounding of an approaching Wight Army or he could gather Wildling and Queensmen and continue south to avenge the not Dead Stannis

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Jon is taken to Hardin's tower to heal naturally , but unconscious .While this is going on fighting between the Queen's men ,Night Watch knights and the Wildlings .Massive desertions and a raven sent to Alister Thorne for help and the return of Benjen Stark with an army of Others .

[Mychel_Redfort]

Even if we assume that Jon is wounded but not fatally if he gets some immediate medical attention, I think until we know what else happens in the seconds, minutes, and hours that follow our last sighting of him we just don't have enough to go on.

But we have a clue of what happens next : in Bran's visions, just before he wakes up, we see Jon put in an ice cell, with all warmth fleeing from his body. That makes the possibility of Jon being healed just after the stabbing very slim.

[Lion Of The Night]

Revenge.

[Pod The Impaler]

I think Jon will survive. In His state, he may be comatose, and have a coma dream as Bran did. Perhaps he will even communicate to Bran, in this state of astral projection, and realize Bran is alive and far to the North. No doubt if he does, he will also see what Bran saw - the Enemy, the future, perhaps even his origins. Bran may have to lead him out of the darkness of near-death, back to the world of the living (as the Three Eyed Crow led him).

Meanwhile back on earth, there will probably be a battle immediately over Jon's body. Conspirators maybe trying to finish himn off, angry loyal Watch men and wildlings, angry Queen's Men, and one angry wounded giant who just saw one of his friends get attacked. There will be a war upon the Wall, and Jon Snow may even have to be hidden away so he survives, if the conspirators or Queen's Men hold the upper hand. Ghost will be important as well.

In this chaos, Melisandre may realize something about Jon she did not before - but I am not counting on her giving him the kiss of R'Hillor or any such thing. As well, I have strong suspicions that something terrible is going to go on simultaneously, involving Selyse, Shireen, and the dead men in the ice cells.

When Jon awakes, I think he'll be leading a force with a fundamentally different character than what went before. More like the wildlings and Starks of old. This seems to be a trend among all the Starks but Sansa - back to the Old Gods and the savage ways.

[Arya Stark Rules]

4. I think Jon will be unconscious and warg Ghost...he might even talk to Bran, who will tell him some important stuff.

After that, who knows? Too much hanging up in the air to really predict.

How is a boy that is trapped in a cave with tree-huggers (whose motives are ambiguous) and a dead-treeman going to give him important "Stuff" ?

I think Jon will survive. In His state, he may be comatose, and have a coma dream as Bran did. Perhaps he will even communicate to Bran, in this state of astral projection, and realize Bran is alive and far to the North. No doubt if he does, he will also see what Bran saw - the Enemy, the future, perhaps even his origins. Bran may have to lead him out of the darkness of near-death, back to the world of the living (as the Three Eyed Crow led him).

In my opinion that would be horrible writing for GRRM to repeat the same coma dream for Jon.

[kimim]

I think Jon will survive. In His state, he may be comatose, and have a coma dream as Bran did. Perhaps he will even communicate to Bran, in this state of astral projection, and realize Bran is alive and far to the North. No doubt if he does, he will also see what Bran saw - the Enemy, the future, perhaps even his origins. Bran may have to lead him out of the darkness of near-death, back to the world of the living (as the Three Eyed Crow led him).

Meanwhile back on earth, there will probably be a battle immediately over Jon's body. Conspirators maybe trying to finish himn off, angry loyal Watch men and wildlings, angry Queen's Men, and one angry wounded giant who just saw one of his friends get attacked. There will be a war upon the Wall, and Jon Snow may even have to be hidden away so he survives, if the conspirators or Queen's Men hold the upper hand. Ghost will be important as well.

In this chaos, Melisandre may realize something about Jon she did not before - but I am not counting on her giving him the kiss of R'Hillor or any such thing. As well, I have strong suspicions that something terrible is going to go on simultaneously, involving Selyse, Shireen, and the dead men in the ice cells.

When Jon awakes, I think he'll be leading a force with a fundamentally different character than what went before. More like the wildlings and Starks of old. This seems to be a trend among all the Starks but Sansa - back to the Old Gods and the savage ways.

I like this! I'm not sure if the conspirators can have the upper hand, though, as it'll be the old guard vs everyone else. I was going to put the Queen's Men on their side, but Mel will probably side with Jon, and Queen and her people follow Mel. I don't even know how this could be anything but a short-lived battle.

[Julia H.]

Can't see Jon forgiving Marsh. Heads will roll.

Also if Jon discovers he is a Targ I believe he will be pissed off.

Wun Wun will probably have finished Marsh off by the time Jon has a chance to do anything about him.

[Pod The Impaler]

In my opinion that would be horrible writing for GRRM to repeat the same coma dream for Jon.

Well, you can either view it as not the same (because it would not be just the same), or else view it as a continuation of a consistent pattern - the strongest / most prescient dreams come to those who are being touched by death by do not cross the veil into the afterlife.