Whitering Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 He gets on my nerves the same way he gets on Jon's but I never had anyone berating me my whole life, so it's hard for me to empathize with him properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 he's hilarious! isnt one of the opening lines to his pov when theyre marching North: "Samwell Tarly was fat. So very fat. And tired." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 As much as I sympathize with Sam. I have to admit, and I believe most would agree with me, that he would make an absolutely horrible main character. A Sam re-read must be horrific reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 hee xploits the night's watch's library to Jon! the fact that records were deliberately destroyed regarding the earlier lord commanders! (which INCLUDES the 'true' records of the night's king!) he blatantly exploits the night's watch and fulfills Old Nan's quip, "All crows are liars." No Sam is the true slayer of lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 But he is fat. So very fat. And tired. per the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes. Definitely one of my least favorite POVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronzag Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't really like him but i can't say i truly hate him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 As much as I sympathize with Sam. I have to admit, and I believe most would agree with me, that he would make an absolutely horrible main character. A Sam re-read must be horrific reading. Slightly agree with the main character bit. That's why I think Ep 9 of S4 of that show was extremely weak despite the budget and hype. They wanted him to carry the episode but he's just not an engaging enough character to carry a battle episode. Whereas Tyrion was in a much bigger position of power and lacked even more physical disadvantage than Sam. But Lummel is doing the Sam reread and it is great stuff from what I've read so far. A spin off of the much-praised Jon Snow Reread. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu the Drowned God Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 He doesn't actively annoy me, but I do find him to be a stereotype (the fat nerdy sidekick who has to learn to be brave) and one of the least interesting POV characters in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I find him a very good sort of person, with very admirable morals ... but I find his constant whining so grating. Every second sentence out of his mouth is 'I'm a craven' and it just wants me to give him a slap upon the head. He's constantly going on about everything he hates about himself (size, cowardice, clumsiness, lack of physical skills), but at the same time he revels in it and doesn't really do anything to change anything. It gets annoying very quickly. But yeah, one of the very few people in the series whose actions don't constantly border on at least morally questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lullipop Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well, let's see. So far, Sam has: - Killed an Other.- Punched a bard in the face.- Got it in. Gotta respect the man.Sam Tarly could be AAR. Sam Tarly could ride a dragon. Sam Tarly could ride Drogon and sit in the Iron Throne for all I care because I just love the guy. I just miss having him and Jon dorking over the Wall. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven19 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hes not as annoying as sansa, but there are times when I want to yell at him "nut up or shut up". but for the most part I like his character. Hes got such a good heart I forgive the moments when I want to shake him.Lol I totally agree. Good point. Although I think Sansa gets much better but still, I couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven19 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 He can be irritating. It's not that he's a coward it's more, like you said, that he doesn't seem to even really try sometimes.Yeah mate! It's like Sam just finds it so much easier to say "Yeah, I'm a craven.." rather than working hard at getting better or facing his fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven19 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 We've been talking about a similar concept on the Arianne reread thread. (plug!) I don't really have time to get into it fully but basically: GRRM is very good at giving each separate POV a distinct voice but the "problem" (it's not a problem really, just a thing that exists) is that everything is so influenced by the characters own self-concept and that we, the readers, tend to believe them. Sam sees himself as a weak, useless, coward. He's been told that so many times by his horrible, violent, abusive, rape apologist father that he completely believes it himself. He's in all these crazy situations fighting monsters and what not and the second he feels a twinge of PERFECTLY REASONABLE mortal terror he tells himself: "I'm such a craven, I'm useless" usually while doing something that is neither. He never once loses his compassion for others, he does what he has to when he needs to, from stabbing the Other, to leading Gilly thorough the wilderness (seriously, that was an amazing achievement), to standing up to the high officers to get Jon elected, to keeping it together on the way to Oldtown, his actions say he's compassionate, has a strong sense of morals, is persistent, and always willing to do the right thing. That was a very good post as well, thank you Julia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaDC Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think that is sort of the point. Every character has positives and negatives.Sam being the upbeat, moral straight arrow has to have some trait to not make him a garry stew.In this case it is his lack of self confidence & self worth, to a painful fault. We do get hints of his full potential when his confidence is placed outside himself/ in others, or when protecting someone "more valuable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyvasse Khal Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the same people who like/dislike Sansa would feel similarly about Sam. It's the same sort of character arc of pathetic and insufferable in the first 2 books, to gaining a harder edge and finding courage in adversity, to being in a position of importance heading towards the end of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Sam's biggest problem is one many young men face, he has no confidence. Even when he does something heroic, he doesn't believe in himself enough to recognize what he's done. He overcomes his fear and kills an Other but downplays it as if anyone could have done it better and he only just got lucky. His father beat the manhood out of Sam. When you are raised by a bully you become shy and unsure of yourself. I don't think he's annoying, I think he is finally growing away from what his father did to him and realizing that his father was wrong about him. He is a man, he can be brave, he can take care of other people, he is smart and he can make a difference. He is still gullible, but he's working on that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the same people who like/dislike Sansa would feel similarly about Sam. It's the same sort of character arc of pathetic and insufferable in the first 2 books, Not really, no. They are pretty different characters. One is intelligent, book smart and can connect the dots and come up with answers and the other is just straight up stupid. Sam got to where he is because he would not conform to what was expected of him. Sansa got to where she is because she conformed to what she thought was expected of her. Their character arcs are rather different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not really, no. They are pretty different characters. One is intelligent, book smart and can connect the dots and come up with answers and the other is just straight up stupid. Sam got to where he is because he would not conform to what was expected of him. Sansa got to where she is because she conformed to what she thought was expected of her. Their character arcs are rather different. No, in fact, they are very similar. First, Sam is almost ten years older than Sansa and he's bookish. Sansa, otoh, has been well educated in what is expected of a Lady, but that doesn't mean she won't eventually learn better things. And two, Sam's situations is what it is because he couldn't fulfil his role as a suitable heir. Instead of defying his father or proved him wrong, he had to accept what he told him to do, going to the Wall or die. That's not different from Sansa's own situation, as she was threatened to get married against her will and she had no other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 No, in fact, they are very similar. First, Sam is almost ten years older than Sansa and he's bookish. Sansa, otoh, has been well educated in what is expected of a Lady, but that doesn't mean she won't eventually learn better things. And two, Sam's situations is what it is because he couldn't fulfil his role as a suitable heir. Instead of defying his father or proved him wrong, he had to accept what he told him to do, going to the Wall or die. That's not different from Sansa's own situation, as she was threatened to get married against her will and she had no other option. Sam is ten years older than Sansa? Is he not the same age as Jon? Second, Sam is definitely the more intelligent of the two. He's not only bookish or book smart, he's more than that. He can connect the dots. When Mormont makes Jon a steward, Sam can hypothesize as to the reasons for that decision. When he plays the crows against each other in order to get Jon elected as lord commander, that shows a shrewdness of mind and an ability to play the game. No one taught him to do that. Sansa on the other hand, has an inability to think. For some reason, despite living in Westeros and in the harsh North, she believes that fairy tales happen in real life. She sees people behaving in dishonorable ways and continues to think they are honorable. She betrays her father and sister to further her own position. That betrayal played a role in her getting stuck at KL. In the first book, Sam lands at the end of the world (The watch) with the rest of the rapists and murderers after his father dumps him there for not conforming to society's ideals. Sansa meanwhile lands in KL as the beautiful, spoiled daughter of the hand of the king, conforming to what she thinks is the right way of society. Sam, at the end of the book, is part of the group that dissuades Jon from deserting. Sansa on the other hand stupidly and selfishly betrays her family and gets taken prisoner. I don't see similarities. There's not much of Sam in the second book except for him trying to help Gilly. But most of Sam's story is him trying to use his wits to help the folks around him. He plays an active role in shaping events and moving the story in a particular story. He stopped Jon from desertion. He made Jon LC of the Watch. And he is finally at Old Town where he may have a more important role to play. In 5 books Sansa has yet to do anything of her own accord or due to her own thinking except for the one instance of when she went behind Ned's back and tattled to Cersei. So, again, I think that they are very different characters, with different motivations, situations and upbringings. The only similarity between them maybe that they are underdogs with Sansa being a woman in Westeros and Sam being a fat, nonathletic person. But in which case we could find similarities between them and a whole lot of other underdogs: Jon the bastard who was at the watch on account of his low birth, Arya the girl who could never fit in anywhere, Tyrion who was hated by his father for being a dwarf etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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