The show versus the books.. What differences

[Darth Tywin]

I really realllllyyyy hate what they did to Tormund and I wish they had Mance tell his Winterfell story.

[Darth Tywin]

Killing characters (to save money) is really pissing me off ; Grenn, Pyp, Jojen & Talisa/Jeyne are the main ones to spring to mind. Either you're capable of doing this hugely expansive book series or you're not. Should not have taken it on if they couldn't.

Agreed they are botching it. I watched the series before I read the books just finished them a month or two ago and the show just really irks me with adding in pointless scenes.

[El Guapo]

This was just about spot on. Although I'm not that fussed about the missing of Rhoynar from the title and the scene outside blood ravens cave was pretty good imo.

Actually they randomly inserted the Rhoynar into one of Dany's titles in I beleive episode 10.

[Ghosts Lunch]

Instead of being a tall striking charismatic, confident and gregarious natural leader who loves fighting and hunting, Renly is a small plain, twitchy, nervous, defensive little prude who fears the sight of blood and does whatever any Tyrell tells him to do.

(In fairness, they also give him a rant against Robert's misogyny that he's unlikely to have made, though he does seem monogamous and not at all prone to Robert's excesses in any regard.)

Yeah I have nothing against the actor but the point of Renly is that he is a younger, handsome version of Robert in his prime. The only issue is he has no military experience like Stannis. He is supposed to be an exact contrast, int hat there's a good reason pretty much every Baratheon Bannerman went over him, because he is highly charismatic, good populist, a good politician (eg he has time to do all the boring Court things properly which Robert and even Dany and most other claimants find boring) and has the common touch, he basically drew people to him and he fits the image but basically in the show he is some kind of dweeb who people flock to merely because he is "not Stannis". Interestingly we have heaps of "Stannis the Mannis" fans, I like Stannis but bother were good, and it can be argued a hybrid mix of Stannis and Renly is the perfect candidate but we have no Renly fans

And Loras the famous kill everything in sight knight, the peerless jouster and beast with a morningstar loves brocade and spars with a man whore...because? Gay dudes do that? Right? Ya, obviously!

Yeah he is made to come across as a little strange in the show, haven't given him his due as a likeable and highly skilled Knight similar to a younger Jaimie Lannister

What really pissed me off bigtime is the Margaery/Cersei relationship in the end of season 4 in the show.

I nearly fell of my chair when Cersei approached Margaery with her "a mother always loves her son" speech and asks her to marry Tommen, whilest in the books, she doesn't trust her at all and compares her to a vulture, hopping from one dead husband to the next.

Other things I didn't like:

Podrick being ridiculed. In the book he's quite clever.

Tyrions chain missing

Duel between Hound and Brienne

Torture scenes Ramsay-Theon, that are never told in the books and over-sexualized

Brans annoying haircut

There was a point to that scene, which basically in that episode she is costing up to the various trial judges, in this case not Mace Tyrell directly but The Thrells through Margaery, this is being inclusive by seeing to "invite" Margaery to marry Tommen, which would have been arranged by Mace and Tywin anyway. How ironic then this is the exact opposite of what happens in the beginning of AFfC.

Of course later she visits her own Dad to discuss Lannister legacy and Thrions impact (as if her Twincest didn't jeopardise it lol) and then Oberyn where they discuss daughters and the Sand Snakes are name-dropped, gifting Myrcella a ship she can sail away from Dorne and escape on lol

They have whitewashed Cersei, and they are preparing to do so again by this absurd "mines have run dry" line which will presumably be used to justify not paying Tycho Neatoris and the IB as if her hand are tied and she isn't an arrogant jerk. They'll probably make her look like the mis-treated victim in the walk of shame and the High Sparrow an undue jerk as well - as if she had no similar fate in mind for Margaery. And then they'll probably whitewash the controversial role in the creation of FrankenGregor too, it was all done just out of using Ser Gregors happily comatose body for the justifiable protection of her beloved children like at the end of last season

[Ghosts Lunch]

The only complaint that should be relevant, is the lack of back story. But, apparently this is due to change this coming season.

Yeah they came up with some "no flashbacks" and no warg dreams etc

I can understand they want to set Bran up above his siblings but now he is with Greenseers they can start giving Jon and Arya dreams IMO

Plus they could have done flashbacks/prophecies, they are doing it fine in Walking Dead so they can do it here in dream sequences or whatever, eg give Dany her Red Door, Cersei her Maggy, they could have given Tyrion his Tysha then had an excuse to name-drop her and kill Tywn properly, these flashbacks are what drives the characters but TV audiences need a visual clue. Hopefully Jon gets his flaming sword vision too :)

Thankfully Bran and his weir vision hopefully opens the door, will be a good way to get cameo appearances out of favourite dead characters etc, they will do this toward the end of the series IMO

[Julia Martell]

They have whitewashed Cersei, and they are preparing to do so again by this absurd "mines have run dry" line which will presumably be used to justify not paying Tycho Neatoris and the IB as if her hand are tied and she isn't an arrogant jerk. They'll probably make her look like the mis-treated victim in the walk of shame and the High Sparrow an undue jerk as well - as if she had no similar fate in mind for Margaery. And then they'll probably whitewash the controversial role in the creation of FrankenGregor too, it was all done just out of using Ser Gregors happily comatose body for the justifiable protection of her beloved children like at the end of last season

My forum friend Chebyshov and I have a bet going for season 5: She thinks they’ll fuck up Dorne worse, I say they’ll fuck up Cersei. (And by "fuck up” I mean as an adaptation, just to be clear.) I recently raised her to add that they will somehow make the rearming of the Faith not Cersei’s fault. We’ll see.

[SeanF]

I haven't seen Season 4, yet. I wouldn't say that Cersei has been whitewashed. She's committed her fair share of crimes. But, she has been made more sympathetic than in the books.

This is a very rare case of the Show doing a better job at characterisation than the books, IMHO.

[Chebyshov]

My forum friend Chebyshov and I have a bet going for season 5: She thinks they’ll fuck up Dorne worse, I say they’ll fuck up Cersei. (And by "fuck up” I mean as an adaptation, just to be clear.) I recently raised her to add that they will somehow make the rearming of the Faith not Cersei’s fault. We’ll see.

There's no way I'm losing this bet:

(major filming/audition script spoilers)

From what we can tell of the S5 Dornish plot, hunky, hunky Trystane wants to marry newly-minted Myrcella, but Doran won't let them (likely because Trys is engaged to Dany in secret...though I sincerely doubt he'll go on that voyage). Meanwhile, the 3 nipples-on-their-armor-wearing Sand Snakes plus sassy, short-haired Ellaria want revenge (oh and Tyene is her daughter), so maybe they pitch Trys the QM plot? At any-rate, Trys is convinced of his love for Myrcella, and he asks her to sneak out with him.

At some point Jaime and Bronn don turbans and sneak into Dorne, and then apparently there's going to be a scene where Trys tries to shake Jaime's hand, but he offers his left, and Trys gets offended. And there's a quasi-Darkstar figure that's been cast, but they aren't calling him Gerold Dayne, so :dunno: .

And meanwhile we have the perfect Doran looking like a dreamboat, who will have have to deliver his "fire and blood" speech to a kid that looks like he was cut from One Direction, and who's character motivation was marriage. I don't know how blood thirsty Ellaria is going to play into any of this, but I do know that the Dornish filming has wrapped up, because the Sand Snakes took to twitter about it.

Oh and hopefully this was obvious, but Arianne, no Quentyn.

[True.Edged]

Bran has brown hair.

Robb has auburn hair.

Rickon has blonde/brown hair.

Only Jon Snow has actual BLACK hair- no clue which show you've been watching.

And in the books, Jon and Arya have brown hair- not black.

Doesn't Robb have Auburn hair in the books too? I'm pretty sure Robb, Rickon, Bran, and Sansa are described as having the Tully look: deep blue eyes, and Auburn hair.

Auburn is brown hair with red highlights, not red hair.

Arya and Jon Snow have the brown hair with grey eyes of the Starks. So I guess that means the show got it right at least with Robb. With Rickon a light brown (brown/blonde) would work as well as his exact hair colouring was never described in the books IIRC.

[2FallenStags]

I'm upset abt how they did Pyp and Grenn. I'm upset abt no westerling. I'm upset abt The on being captured at winter fell scene...

But, I'll tell you what really pissed me off was how badly they botched my favorite chapter in all of the books... The house of the undying.

Firstly, Dany doesn't makes it through that bitch and out the other side without Drogons assistance. And she damn sure would never have let him be stolen and have to rescue him from there.

Next, the visions that made the chapter in the book such a revelation to all of the readers was a cheap joke in the show. No Rhaegar? Perhaps the most important vision other than the winter rose growing from the ice.

I'll never forgive HBO because I was so looking forward to that episode and all we got was dwarves raping a woman and dany walking through a snow covered iron throne room.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

In the books, the southern region is called Dorne.

In the shows, is Porne.

[Greymoon]

This was just about spot on. Although I'm not that fussed about the missing of Rhoynar from the title and the scene outside blood ravens cave was pretty good imo.

that scene was one of the worst imho. Jon's and Bran's arcs have been completely mistreated. Robb was given way too much screen time, Talisa is the most annoying character aver created. Yara is a stupid name, and her rescue mission was simply bad writing. The Jon/Ygritte wall falling stunt is impossible to pull off, in real life both would be dead. (The whole Ygritte/Jon romance was botched. Really... It was one of my favorite in the books, too!)

Arya joking with Tywin doesn't make sense. Loras was turned into a man-eater, Magaery is way too manipulative and power hungry. Why does Edmure look even more incompetent? And Joffrey even more like a psychopath? Why must Loras marry Cersei? Where are the She-bears?

Sam's extra fluffy love time was not required, Gilly being send away to turn up again, made absolutely no sense. The Thenns as man eating brutes was ridiculous and complicates the story -- who is Alys going to marry now? Where did Satin go and who is Olly?

And where did Locke come from?...and why does Jon appear incompetent and Stannis a fanatic? What's up with the skeletons coming out of nowhere? the children with fire balls? and why is St Nicholas waiting for Bran? Were the rape scenes with craster's wives necessary? Bran being captured?

I just don't get it. Why couldn't Bran's arc develop as it did in the books? I understood there's no Cold Hands, but couldn't they have found the cave without him? What was the purpose of that nonsensical storyline? the cheap Zombie invasion? And weren't the Others supposed to be beautiful ethereal beings?

Jaime and Cersei? That horrible scene aside, show Cersei is a woman we pity because she has no real power, and is never taken seriously. Book Cersei is like that too, but she also has Jaime firmly under her influence, until he starts to think for himself. Am I the only one who feels there was a sort of inversion of roles in the show, and that Jaime is the one 'leading' the relationship, instead of Cersei?

And Dany's relationship with Drogo? I understand it's an arranged marriage and Dany is a minor in our views -- but the violence of their first encounters was well overplayed.

Dany's arc is even more controversial because of uncritical representation of racial cliches, on screen.... And I'm not talking only about skin colors, but also of the horrible mix of 'gentle savage' cliches that makes up the dothraki people...oh, and Xaros Xhoan Daxos/Doreah what on earth?! Couldn't have another gay character in the show? the pale, hairless Xaros didn't fit with the 'oriental vibe' the producers looked to create?

Where is Essos's mixed race population? Why are most dothrakis barely tanned enough to pass for southern Europeans (and I mean barely)? How come the dornish wear desert clothes but are pale as ghosts? Pedro Pascal did a wonderful job, and he looks like the Dornish are meant to look like -- no objections here, but the supporting cast?

Where are all the pale haired Lysenis gone? or the dark skinned summer islanders?

[Grail King]

Dumming down Sansa, Tyrion is too handsome, no Jeyne Westerly or Stoneheart ( though I hope she appears maybe as Lady T or Lady Cat ).

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Something that not only HBO has failed to do is the portrayal of strong women: they're either hot vixens, bitches or magical warriors.

Take bookElaria. She's not warrior, she's a mom. A strong woman with nothing but love to her partner and her children. She's also smart, fun and compassionate. That's the nature of her strength. That's why people like her and that's why Oberyn loved her.

In the show, Ellaria wants revenge. Fuck her perfect speech about how revenge leads to more blood and death, because there is no place for compassionate women in media if they are going to be strong... if you are going to be a strong woman, you better have a taste for blood.

And how to show that Sansa has matured and taken control of the situation? Put her in a hot black dress, that'll show them!

[aryagonnakill#2]

Grail King - In all fairness to Tyrion's casting, there aren't that many dwarf actors to choose from, and Peter Dinklidge is a great actor.

Chebyshov - I agree I think you won that bet already.

Julia Martell - I think guys generally found the Pod being a sex god pretty funny.

[Lyannarya Snow]

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Does Margaery actually have sex with Tommen (who must be about 12?)

Please nooooo

That would be really weird, I mean, he's how old in the books, eight?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Instead of being a tall striking charismatic, confident and gregarious natural leader who loves fighting and hunting, Renly is a small plain, twitchy, nervous, defensive little prude who fears the sight of blood and does whatever any Tyrell tells him to do.

(In fairness, they also give him a rant against Robert's misogyny that he's unlikely to have made, though he does seem monogamous and not at all prone to Robert's excesses in any regard.)

That scene I liked. Because I think they tried to portray Renly as someone who, while loving his brother, realised that his ways (fucking, warring, drinking) were completely wrong and were to cause a war, and he didn't want a war because of the consequences. Personally, I would have loved to see that in bookRenly. Problem is that they seemed to forget that in the next season, when, yeah, Renly is afraid of battles, blood and women's reproductive parts.

Everything that happened at and north of the Wall is season 4. Just everything.

Craster... ayyyy....

I realised what I didn't like about those scenes. It's not that I'm against the portrayal of rape in a show like GoT because what happened there is what probably actually happened. But they completely abused it into the point of being awkward. "Look! people are rapists! look! look!". We got it, they rape. Do they do more? Doesn't look like.

And the most important part of the plot involving a rape (Tysha), they forgot it existed :dunno:

^It's almost as if they're keeping "plot points" (Tyrion kills his father for instance) but changing the context, themes and characterizations at play. A discrete set of "moments" do not a compelling story make.

Indeed. I think that's the problem. The show could very well change its name to Game of Sketches, because sometimes looks like D&D sit down with the books at hand and make a list of the important scenes and they simply film them without worrying how the characters get there.

Maybe what they're writing is enjoyable for the Unsullied. Maybe they see this as more suited to the medium. It's certainly hard to argue with the numbers GoT churns out. But I do think we're seeing a growing disillusionment with the show from readers, and there are very real and justified reasons for that.

Unsullied don't complain because they do not know what are they missing. They simply get the top of the iceberg, which is very shiny and violent, and they believe they get it, while they are missing all the context. We can't put ourselves in our places because we already have the knowledge (even subconscious) of what is happening and things could or could not make sense. I suppose it makes sense for them.

It's absurd to pretend that book readers want EVERYTHING portrayed because we understand how hard is to portray every single character. But that doesn't mean we're not an important part of the audience as well. It's like we've been told "shut up, you have the books and you can enjoy that". Well, I would have liked to see some characters I like portrayed, some scenes as well but they have been cut because someone thought they didn't deserved to be adapted. Apparently, I'm wrong for complaining. I'll watch the show, but I'll do with a bitter taste in my mouth.

[Salafi Stannis]

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Does Margaery actually have sex with Tommen (who must be about 12?)

Yup.

[Caesar Targaryen]

This thread ...

http://jimegli.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/cry-baby.png

You may not like the changes from book to show (and I don't like some of them either, like Littlefinger being a completely unsubtle character) but most of them are a necessary evil when it comes to adapting these books to the screen. Whether you want to admit it or not, ASOIAF has A LOT of fat that needs trimming, and in order to tell a story that fits the medium of television, the writers need to streamline things or else it will come off as a clusterfuck of subplots and characters.

What I really dislike is the arrogance and snobbery of some book readers. They basically call the people who haven't read the books and watch and enjoy the show idiots in order to take away whatever satisfaction they might get from it. Why do you care if they like the show or not? If you really want to send a message that you are dissatisfied with the show, then boycott it. Network execs don't care about quality: they only care about revenue generated from viewership. And once they've seen that the ratings are down, THEN they'll listen and maybe make the show more like the books.

[SeanF]

Yup.

That's pretty disturbing, then. I wonder if Martin will go there in the books, where they're respectively 16 and 8.