Roose, Ramsey, the Boltons, Ryswells, and Dustins

[Shpati]

I used to think House Ryswell and Dustin were the only two houses in the North that Roose could trust. But overtime after rereading the details and theories, I think they may be one of the Bolton's biggest threats. Lady Dustin obviously doesn't like Ramsey for killing her nephew and she doesn't like the Freys. Roose holds Ramsey and the Frey alliance pretty close.

Lady Dustin seems more sneaky (and much better at it) than the other houses, and I think she will be the biggest threat to Roose if Roose doesn't play his cards right (meaning he doesn't relinquish his son and Frey Alliance).

Since the Ryswells and Dustins sent as few numbers as possible south with Robb, I would assume they are one of the stronger, healthier (mentally and physically), and wealthier houses in the North. These two houses (Rysell and Dustin) could have pretty ambitious plans, not just some revenge plot.

I'm curious to know how much men they will send in Roose's support. If it's a small number like with Robb's army, she might have more ambitious plans. Dustins and Ryswells can't take on the Manderlys or Boltons now, but they might after the Manderlys and Boltons fight a couple of battles which should happen soon.

I'm sure I am wrong with some/lot of this, but that's why I started a thread.

You think Roose expects some backstabbing from the Ryswells and Dustins like he does from the Manderlys? Or he doesn't have a clue?

[RenlyIsNotRight]

I think Roose admitted that even his alliance with Lady Dustin is somewhat tenuous/only really exists because she hates Ned.

Regardless I remember in what little moments we got with House Ryswell, they came off as a bit shifty to me, very different from the impression of the Northmen we got from the earlier books from houses like Umber/Mormont/Glover etc. I doubt they have any particularly strong loyalty to Roose but rather are more either gunning to advance themselves or are simply just over cautious. Can't say for sure as we don't really know much about them, but that's the vibe I got.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

I'm curious to know how much men they will send in Roose's support. If it's a small number like with Robb's army, she might have more ambitious plans. Dustins and Ryswells can't take on the Manderlys or Boltons now, but they might after the Manderlys and Boltons fight a couple of battles which should happen soon.

Well, Manderly's holding his forces back too. He's got thousands of men hidden away, along with the most impressive fleet that the North has ever had. And you could argue for days about how much Barbrey knows about Manderly's plotting. Maybe she's in on it already?

Roose is already afraid of his own position in Winterfell. Stannis is bearing down on him with an army of knights from the south, northern clansmen, and survivors of various Houses that all want the Boltons and Freys wiped out. Most of the Houses that are following him, meanwhile, are doing so unwillingly and/or have plans of their own, like Lady Dustin.

I'd still say that Manderly is the greatest threat to Roose. He's in contact with the Glovers and who knows how many others, he's the richest man in the North, and Roose underrates him at every turn. That's what makes him more dangerous than Lady Dustin. Roose already knows she's a crafty woman with a grievance against the Freys, so he'll keep an eye out for her. He doesn't worry as much about Wyman, and that will be his undoing.

[Synthetic CDO Love]

I wonder if thats why Manderly went to Winterfell with so few men, so that if they all got wiped out, at least the major portion of his strength in White Harbour could fight on the good fight. I bet he's on to Roose's strategy of using his rivals as cannon fodder in battles (heck, seems like thats what he's doing again in the start of the Battle of Ice).

[Ghosts Lunch]

I used to think House Ryswell and Dustin were the only two houses in the North that Roose could trust. But overtime after rereading the details and theories, I think they may be one of the Bolton's biggest threats. Lady Dustin obviously doesn't like Ramsey for killing her nephew and she doesn't like the Freys. Roose holds Ramsey and the Frey alliance pretty close.

Lady Dustin seems more sneaky (and much better at it) than the other houses, and I think she will be the biggest threat to Roose if Roose doesn't play his cards right (meaning he doesn't relinquish his son and Frey Alliance).

Since the Ryswells and Dustins sent as few numbers as possible south with Robb, I would assume they are one of the stronger, healthier (mentally and physically), and wealthier houses in the North. These two houses (Rysell and Dustin) could have pretty ambitious plans, not just some revenge plot.

I'm curious to know how much men they will send in Roose's support. If it's a small number like with Robb's army, she might have more ambitious plans. Dustins and Ryswells can't take on the Manderlys or Boltons now, but they might after the Manderlys and Boltons fight a couple of battles which should happen soon.

I'm sure I am wrong with some/lot of this, but that's why I started a thread.

You think Roose expects some backstabbing from the Ryswells and Dustins like he does from the Manderlys? Or he doesn't have a clue?

Long story short, IMO the politicking of the north can be broken into 4 rival factions, there would be the Boltons/Freys who have Roose as Warden in a pre-eminent position. Perhaps one day Roose will want to be KiTN

There would be a Dustin/Ryswell faction, Barbey Dustin will have her own ambitions,she hates the Starks but also will see this as the vacuum in which she can finally put the Dustin's back as the seat of power in the north, she would have found out in the crypts there are still some Stark claimants floating around. She has her forces

Then there's Manderly/Umber/Mormonts etc the Stark loyalists who seem to be in everyone's camp including Stannis but Manderly has his army/navy safely hidden away

Fourthly there is what I'll term the Stannis/Jon Snow/Mance Raydar faction which includes the Wildlings and the hill men (who are pseudo wildlings really) who will have a lot of respect for "the Mance" or Abel ATM . That said there is also the prospect that while they may not like the southerners. Stannis's personality traits which counted against him in the south may actually endear the hill men to him if he adjusts his religious perspective as mooted in the Theon chapter

[Ghosts Lunch]

I wonder if thats why Manderly went to Winterfell with so few men, so that if they all got wiped out, at least the major portion of his strength in White Harbour could fight on the good fight. I bet he's on to Roose's strategy of using his rivals as cannon fodder in battles (heck, seems like thats what he's doing again in the start of the Battle of Ice).

yeah there seems to be an opinion he went to Winterfell knowing he wouldn't make it, eg they are all old men with him for this very reason (same with the Umber I think) and he made sure he secured his sons release from Harrenhall, his army is in White Harbour with his son but have been kept there to defend White Harbour and Rickon once Davos fetches him back

[thelittledragonthatcould]

yeah there seems to be an opinion he went to Winterfell knowing he wouldn't make it, eg they are all old men with him for this very reason (same with the Umber I think) and he made sure he secured his sons release from Harrenhall, his army is in White Harbour with his son but have been kept there to defend White Harbour and Rickon once Davos fetches him back

Umber has old men, Manderly doesn't.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

Lady Barbrey Dustin was born as Barbrey Ryswell, Houses Dustin and Ryswell are two of the biggest ones, and probably not enemies to each other. But I think Roose can't trust. He married a Frey but probably doesn't trust them. Also he doesn't trust Ramsay, coz it is rumored that Ramsay killed Roose's son in the past and now Ramsay got power since he became a Bolton and got Winterfell.

So in my opinion Roose doesn't trust anybody, only himself and the leeches. I see Roose as a powerful and feared lord, but nobody likes him, and become the Warden of the North made the ground under his feet unstable, which made him more cautious. This is why I think that allof the Lords gathered under Roose's flag will die in the coming battle(s) and after, and only Roose will survive.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

You think Roose will survive? I'd be quite disappointed with that. It'd be nice to see a few Northern axes and swords in him before the story's over.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Yeah, Roose is a goner sooner or later.

And if Ramsey really was the writer of the letter, Roose probably is dead already or at least incapacitated.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

And if Ramsey really was the writer of the letter, Roose probably is dead already or at least incapacitated.

Why is that? Ramsay couldn't have written the letter in secret?

[joluoto2]

Roose is smart enough not to trust anyone. It won't help him though.

But yes, Lady Dustin and the Ryswells are up to something. There's a reason they were witholding their full support for Robb, and still seem to be witholding support from Roose.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Roose is mistrustful of everyone but he doesn't appear to be worried about The Dustins and Ryswells so of course they will be his downfall. It seems foolish of him to be trustful of anyone but his problem is the same as everyone else in the novels. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. He's quickly learning despite getting exactly what he wants he's not up to the job.

[Roose on the Loose]

Roose is a smart guy. Smart enough to know how despised he is all through the North. If he's looking past the Ryswells and Dustins it's probably because he has to make some simplifying assumptions just to get his head around the chess board.

[Ramsays Fleyed Lips]

I am of the same mind as Howard Hughes, Roose believes he is superior to all the Northmen. He's a sneaky, low down, apathetic jerk. Remember the lines about Ramsay killing all the new children Roose would have? That was one of the strangest conversations and it left me feeling he was trying to intimidate the person he was talking to by appearing to be sort of proud of the horror that is his son, Ramsay. I'd like to know who inspired the Roose character, really. Lady Dustin may hold a grudge, but there is no way she isn't keenly aware of exactly what Roose is. She may be completely motivated in her game by simple local politics--this guy is the MAN so best treat him that way and do what she wants in the back ground. I get the feeling she's the type who will walk the middle of the road and take care of her own first. The Boltons are not respected or wanted by their own countrymen. Then again, I actually buy into many of the ideas involved in the GNC. I say the whole bunch of them are against him. He can be just that sociopathic to never see it coming. I say he married into the Freys not for money but for the vast expendable resources alliance with them affords a Warden of the North.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Roose has consistently been shown to be a good judge of character, one of the best in the series:

-He warns Robb not to enter the Twins in AGOT

-He is able to buy off Vargo Hoat in ACOK

-He correctly deduces why Vargo maimed Jaime in ASOS

-He aptly describes Stannis to Jaime in ASOS

-He predicts Stannis will march on the Dreadfort in ADWD, which was Stannis' plan until Jon Snow intervened

-He is fully aware that Manderly killed the Freys and plots to betray him in ADWD

I'm probably forgetting some examples. And yet people think he would allow enemies into his inner circle? The idea that Lady Dustin will betray Roose is just wishful thinking, always has been. She hates his bastard and holds the Freys in contempt, but she genuinely admires him and the two obviously have a history.

I am of the same mind as Howard Hughes, Roose believes he is superior to all the Northmen.

Because he is :cool4:

Roose is a smart guy. Smart enough to know how despised he is all through the North. If he's looking past the Ryswells and Dustins it's probably because he has to make some simplifying assumptions just to get his head around the chess board.

Exactly. A lot of these theories seem to rely on Roose being easily deceived, and the North being filled with cunning schemers who also happen to be totally loyal to the Starks

[OmnomnomPomelo]

As someone said before in a similar thread: to flay people and wear their skins as cape by the Boltons mentioned a lot of times.

So my question is: Wouldn't it be funny to see Roose in someone's skin to escape in secret? For example Wyman Manderly's skin? Coz it's big enough :D

But no, Manderly's skin is just way too big for Roose, so take a common soldier's skin.

[Roose on the Loose]

As someone said before in a similar thread: to flay people and wear their skins as cape by the Boltons mentioned a lot of times.

So my question is: Wouldn't it be funny to see Roose in someone's skin to escape in secret? For example Wyman Manderly's skin? Coz it's big enough :D

But no, Manderly's skin is just way too big for Roose, so take a common soldier's skin.

Roose clearly has an escape tunnel of some sort, given that he killed all the builders.