What is Valyrian Steel Made Of?

[Modesty Lannister]

What is steel? The definition tells us the basics - Steels are alloys of iron and carbon, widely used in construction and other applications because of their high tensile strengths and low costs. Carbon, other elements, and inclusions within iron act as hardening agents that prevent the movement of dislocations that otherwise occur in the crystal lattices of iron atoms.

A Brief History of Steel

Steel was known in antiquity, and may have been produced by managing bloomeries and crucibles, or iron-smelting facilities, in which they contained carbon. The earliest known production of steel are pieces of ironware, excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia and are nearly 4,000 years old, dating from 1800 BC. Horace identifies steel weapons like the falcata in the Iberian Peninsula, while Nordic steel was used by the Roman military. South Indian and Mediterranean sources recount the presentation and export to the Greeks of 100 talents of South Indian steel. The reputation of Seric iron of South India (wootz steel) amongst the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, East Africans, Chinese and the Middle East grew considerably, a high quality high carbon iron and steel imported from the Tamil people. Steel was produced in large quantities in Sparta around 650 BC.The Chinese of the Warring States period (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel. Han dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD. The Haya people of East Africa invented a type of furnace they used to make carbon steel at 1,802 °C nearly 2,000 years ago.

So, in our world, steel predated feudal system of governance.

A Brief History of Ironcraft on Planetos

In GRRM's world, the first to work iron were Cymmeri

Westeros remembers their conquerors as the Sarnori, for at its height their great kingdom included all the lands watered by the Sarne and its vassals, and the three great lakes that were all that remained of the shrinking Silver Sea. They called themselves the Tall Men (in their own tongue the Tagaez Fen). Long of limb and brown of skin they were, like the Zoqora, though their hair and eyes were black as night. Warriors, sorcerers, and scholars, they traced their descent to the hero king they called Huzhor Amai (the Amazing), born of the last of the Fisher Queens, who took to wife the daughters of the greatest lords and kings of the Gipps, the Cymmeri, and the Zoqora, binding all three peoples to his rule. His Zoqora wife drove his chariot, it is said, his Cymer wife made his armor (for her people were the first to work iron), and he wore about his shoulders a great cloak made from the pelt of a king of the Hairy Men.

TWOIAF - The Grasslands

or the Rhoynar?

The Rhoynar, who founded great cities along the Rhoyne, were said to be the first to learn the art of iron-making.

TWOIAF - The Grasslands

The Andals and the Valyrians learned the craft from the Rhoynar

The fact that the Andals forged iron has been taken by some as proof that the Seven guided them_that the Smith himself taught them this art_and so do the holy texts teach. But the Rhoynar were already an advanced civilization at this time, and they too knew of iron, so it takes only the study of a map to realize that the earliest Andals must have had contact with the Rhoynar. The Darkwash and the Noyne lay directly in the path of the Andals' migration, and there are remnants of Rhoynish outposts in Andalos, according to the Norvoshi historian Doro Golathis. And it would not be the first time that men learned of the working of iron from the Rhoynar; it is said that the Valyrians learned the art from them as well, although the Valyrians eventually surpassed them.

(...)

Sweeping through the Vale with fire and sword, the Andals began their conquest of Westeros. Their iron weapons and armor surpassed the bronze with which the First Men still fought, and many First Men perished in this war.

TWOIAF - The Arrival of The Andals

The First Men of the Reach learned to work iron from the Andals.

The Gardeners sought after Andal craftsmen as well and encouraged their lords bannermen to do the same. Blacksmiths and stonemasons in particular were handsomely rewarded. The former taught the First Men to arm and armor themselves in iron in place of bronze; the latter helped them strengthen the defenses of their castles and holdfasts.

TWOIAF - The Reach - Andals in the Reach

A Brief History of Valyrian Steel

The burning mountains of the Fourteen Flames were rich with ore, and the Valyrians hungered for it: copper and tin for the bronze of their weapons and monuments; later iron for the steel of their legendary blades; and always gold and silver to pay for it all.

None can say how many perished, toiling in the Valyrian mines, but the number was so large as to surely defy comprehension.

TWOIAF - Ancient History - Valyria's Children

The properties of Valyrian steel are well-known, and are the result of both folding iron many times to balance and remove impurities, and the use of spells—or at least arts we do not know—to give unnatural strength to the resulting steel. Those arts are now lost, though the smiths of Qohor claim to still know magics for reworking Valyrian steel without losing its strength or unsurpassed ability to hold an edge. The Valyrian steel blades that remain in the world might number in the thousands, but in the Seven Kingdoms there are only 227 such weapons according to Archmaester Thurgood's Inventories, some of which have since been lost or have disappeared from the annals of history.

However, some of that lost art was preserved in the free city of Qohor. The Qohorik blacksmith cannot produce new Valyrian steel, but they are able to reforge it.

TWOIAF - Ancient History - Valyria's Children

Qohorik swords, knives, and armor are superior to even the best castle-forged steel of Westeros, and the city's smiths have perfected the art of infusing deep color into the metals of their work, producing armor and weaponry of lasting beauty. Only here, in all the world, has the art of reworking Valyrian steel been preserved, its secrets jealously guarded.

TWOIAF - The Free Cities - Qohor

The Citadel believes that a part of the reforging process of Valyrian steel requires human blood sacrifices, preferably the blood of children.

Maester Pol's treatise on Qohorik metalworking, written during several years of residence in the Free City, reveals just how jealously the secrets are guarded: He was thrice publicly whipped and cast out from the city for making too many inquiries. The final time, his hand was also removed following the allegation that he stole a Valyrian steel blade. According to Pol, the true reason for his final exile was his discovery of blood sacrifices—including the killing of slaves as young as infants—which the Qohorik smiths used in their efforts to produce a steel to equal that of the Freehold.

TWOIAF - The Free Cities - Qohor

Properties of Valyrian Steel

In answer, Jon had pressed Longclaw into Sam's hand. He let him feel the lightness, the balance, had him turn the blade so that ripples gleamed in the smoke-dark metal. "Valyrian steel," he said, "spell-forged and razor-sharp, nigh on indestructible. A swordsman should be as good as his sword, Sam. Longclaw is Valyrian steel, but I'm not. The Halfhand could have killed me as easy as you swat a bug." Samwell I, AFFC

The sword was much lighter than he had expected. As he turned it in his hand he saw why. Only one metal could be beaten so thin and still have strength enough to fight with, and there was no mistaking those ripples, the mark of steel that has been folded back on itself many thousands of times. "Valyrian steel?" Tyrion IV, ASOS

Valyrian steel usually has a dark gray ripply looking, but otherwise smooth surface. This would suggest high level of iron in it. However, the steel may appear to change colour depending on the light.

Jon drew Longclaw from its sheath. Rain washed the steel, and the firelight traced a sullen orange line along the edge.

Jon V, ASOS

The bastard blade glittered in the pale sunlight, dark and deadly.

Jon VIII, AGOT

And somehow, Valyrian steel sometimes shows a sort of resistance towards reforging and/or colour infusion. We see that with Ice 2.0 = Oathkeeper.

"The colors are strange," he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a gray so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the gray The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. "How did you get this patterning? I've never seen anything like it." "Nor I, my lord," said the armorer. "I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see.

Tyrion IV, ASOS

When she slid Oathkeeper from the ornate scabbard, Brienne's breath caught in her throat. Black and red the ripples ran, deep within the steel. Valyrian steel, spell-forged. It was a sword fit for a hero.

Brienne I, AFFC

Let's leave the issue of Targaryen colours of the Ice 2.0 aside for another thread for a moment. The reforger said that Valyrian steel swords are stubborn and that they remember. These are almost sentient qualities of an inanimate object.

Oathkeeper was alive in her hands. She had never been so quick. The blade became a gray blur. He wounded her in the shoulder as she came at him, but she slashed off his ear and half his cheek, hacked the head off his spear, and put a foot of rippled steel into his belly through the links of the chain mail byrnie he was wearing.

Brienne IV. AFFC

But, this example is not the only one where a sword has "a mind of its own".

And then Qhorin's sword was coming at him and somehow Longclaw leapt upward to block. The force of impact almost knocked the bastard blade from Jon's hand, and sent him staggering backward. You must not balk, whatever is asked of you. He shifted to a two-hand grip, quick enough to deliver a stroke of his own, but the big ranger brushed it aside with contemptuous ease. Jon VIII, ACoK

Men were screaming. Jon reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy. Somehow he could not seem to get the sword free of its scabbard.

Jon XIII, ADWD

So, sometimes a Valyrian steel sword seems to enhance the performance of its user, sometimes it seems to defend its user and sometimes it seems uncooperative.

Let's just take a step back for a second to the very beginning of our saga.

Dragonbones

Tyrion curled up in his fur with his back against the trunk, took a sip of the wine, and began to read about the properties of dragonbone. Dragonbone is black because of its high iron content, the book told him. It is strong as steel, yet lighter and far more flexible, and of course utterly impervious to fire. Dragonbone bows are greatly prized by the Dothraki, and small wonder. An archer so armed can outrange any wooden bow. Tyrion II, AGOT

All these properties are also properties of Valyrian steel. Furthermore

Faith in Bones

"The bones help," said Melisandre. "The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man's shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming." She made it sound a simple thing, and easy. They need never know how difficult it had been, or how much it had cost her. That was a lesson Melisandre had learned long before Asshai; the more effortless the sorcery appears, the more men fear the sorcerer.

Melisandre I, ADWD

That man is dead. Aeron had drowned and been reborn from the sea, the god's own prophet. No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could . . . nor memories, the bones of the soul.

The Prophet - AFFC

"Your Grace, these are the bones of holy men and women, murdered for their faith. Septons, septas, brothers brown and dun and green, sisters white and blue and gray Some were hanged, some disemboweled. Septs have been despoiled, maidens and mothers raped by godless men and demon worshipers. Even silent sisters have been molested. The Mother Above cries out in her anguish. We have brought their bones here from all over the realm, to bear witness to the agony of the Holy Faith."

Cersei II, AFFC

"Bones," said Bran. "It's bones." The floor of the passage was littered with the bones of birds and beasts. But there were other bones as well, big ones that must have come from giants and small ones that could have been from children. On either side of them, in niches carved from the stone, skulls looked down on them. Bran saw a bear skull and a wolf skull, half a dozen human skulls and near as many giants. All the rest were small, queerly formed. Children of the forest. The roots had grown in and around and through them, every one. A few had ravens perched atop them, watching them pass with bright black eyes.

Bran II, ADWD

"The bones protect you," she reminded him.

Melisandre I, ADWD

No matter what cult or religion, bones are important to them all. Melisandre claims that bones remember and that they can protect aided by sorcery. A Drowned God priest says memories are bones of the soul.

Conclusion

Valyrian steel is unique because it is not made of iron dug from the mines. It is made of dragonbones. Since only Valyrians have dragons and can manipulate them, they are the only ones who could create Valyrian steel out of bones of dead dragons. As we learn from the book Tyrion was reading, the properties of dragonbone are identical to the properties of Valyrian steel - light, flexible, gray to almost black due to the strong quantity of iron in them, impervious to fire, stronger than steel.

But, dragonbones have another magical property ordinary steel can never achieve. Swords made of dragonbones by sorcery remember. They carry the properties of the dragon they once was. So, they can protect, help or hinder.

In conclusion, Valyrian steel swords are truly magical, because not only do they possess all the qualities of dragonbones their were made of, but they also possess a sentinel quality that an ordinary sword cannot aspire to achieve.

So, it stands to reason to conclude that when a dragon died in Old Valyria, his flesh and blood, along with his bones, were used in forging Valyrian steel. In Qohor, specialists tried to recreate the ritual with human sacrifice, but what is needed is not a human, but a dragon.

I hope you enjoyed my theory. Every comment and additional quote are welcome.

[Robbie7707]

I always kinda pictured them as being made like the Japanese samurai swords...if you ever get to see a real one it has ripples from being folded so many times and was much stronger than European swords of the same time.

[Crow's eye in the sky]

Valyrian steel is basically the fantasy version of Damascus steel. Does anyone else notice the similarities

[aryagonnakill#2]

This theory has been put forth before, and while we cannot flatly refute it I personally don't think it makes any sense. Why would you call something made from dragonbone steal? It simply does not make sense. But what would you call steal forged in dragon flame? Since only Valyrians had dragons you would either call it dragonsteal or Valyrian steal. I think it is pretty clear in the world book that the Qohorik know how to make Valyrian steal, they simply lack the dragon flame.

[Modesty Lannister]

This theory has been put forth before, and while we cannot flatly refute it I personally don't think it makes any sense. Why would you call something made from dragonbone steal? It simply does not make sense. But what would you call steal forged in dragon flame? Since only Valyrians had dragons you would either call it dragonsteal or Valyrian steal. I think it is pretty clear in the world book that the Qohorik know how to make Valyrian steal, they simply lack the dragon flame.

I have to disagree. It is not clear from TWOIAF that Qohorik know how to MAKE Valyrian steel. They know how to reforge the existing Valyrian steel. There is a big difference. Why would I call something made out of dragonbone steel? Because steel is made of iron and carbon and dragonbone contains the same elements plus other that makes it a superior iron source to mined iron. I do not think one needs dragon flame to forge Valyrian steel. As I explained, what is needed is a dragon itself.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I know what you explained, the fact that you explained it does not make it fact. Dragonbone is all over the world, Ilyrio is known to trade it, if that's all they need then why aren't they making new steal?

[Modesty Lannister]

I know what you explained, the fact that you explained it does not make it fact. Dragonbone is all over the world, Ilyrio is known to trade it, if that's all they need then why aren't they making new steal?

Because they do not know Valyrian steel is made of dragonbone and they do not know anything about the magical aspect of the process itself. None of the theories are facts. They are logically expanded arguments that you may agree or disagree with, but since I provided a lot of text that corroborates what I'm suggesting, it would be helpful if you could provide something from the books that supports what you are claiming. :cheers:

[Sigbjorn]

Based on the Astronomy of Planetos threads, I think it's plausible Valyrian steel is made from celestial bodies, specifically chunks of a broken moon. The ore's similarity to dragons is what gave birth to the name dragon steel and the myth of dragons hatching from a shattered moon.

[RumHam]

In Valyria did they work Dragonbone into Valyrian steel?

No.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1193/

[LmL]

On first read it reminds me of the Michael Moorcock series which I have not read but everyone lists as an influence - the magic swords (one called stormbringer) are actually demons who took the form of a sword. It seems George may have had an echo of that idea if your theory is correct. The swords aren't demons waiting to change back into entities, but, made from dragonbone, they contain a bit of the dragon's identity and memory. That's a pretty cool idea.

Ok, so now think of the "Dragonsteel" that the NW records refer to, as well as Collquo Votar. They thought it might simply mean Valyrian steel, but most fans have concluded that is too simple. I've been in this camp too, but if your theory is true then Valyrian steel is literally Dragonsteel, steel made from dragonbone.

Interestingly, "frozen fire" kind of applies to obsidian as well as dragonbone.

My question would be about equating a bone with high iron content to steel with a high iron content. The Valyrian steel could be infused with some of the "lively" qualities you noticed via spellcraft of course, perhaps the souls of those sacrificed to make the blade, or some remnant of living fire magic in the blade. But your hypothesis is a nice fit, if indeed Martin is intending to suggest the blades are alive. I know the Others swords and Dawn are both described with being "alive with light," and of course they aren't V steel. So, like most attempts to discern double meanings in Martin's work, there's always that grey area of descriptive language or double meaning. I pretty much pay rent to live in this area, so I know the feeling. We need to see if other swords ever receive such descriptions or only V steel.

It's always been apparent something is very unique about V steel - the two explanations are either a matter of ingredients, process, or both. Your solution is one of ingredients, and I think this is on the right track - it's not just spellcraft, I think. Firstly, dragonflame burns extremely hot (hot enough to melt stone is really ridiculously hot), and so if they use dragon flame to forge the sword, the high level of heat will drive out impurities more effectively. This alone makes their steel better and more pure. But I definitely think it must go farther, as we know spellcraft is involved.

Here's a big issue: if V steel is made with human blood sacrifice, it is inherently evil. No bones about it. (See why I did there? Yeah, you do, okay..) If it's made from dragonbone, then it's a little less heinous, isn't it? That seems an important difference.

Overall great post, and I enjoyed the background on steel working. I'll give this some more thought and let you know if I come up with anything. :cheers:

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I always kinda pictured them as being made like the Japanese samurai swords...if you ever get to see a real one it has ripples from being folded so many times and was much stronger than European swords of the same time.

No, they weren't. Japan used those techniques because the iron to which they had access was of poor quality, Europe had knowledge of such techniques, but didn't bother because their materials were good enough to not require folding.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

This theory has been put forth before, and while we cannot flatly refute it I personally don't think it makes any sense. Why would you call something made from dragonbone steal? It simply does not make sense. But what would you call steal forged in dragon flame? Since only Valyrians had dragons you would either call it dragonsteal or Valyrian steal. I think it is pretty clear in the world book that the Qohorik know how to make Valyrian steal, they simply lack the dragon flame.

When Tyrion is reading the book The Properties of Dragons, he was reading a chapter called the properties of dragonbone I believe. It said that the bones of dragons were black because of its high iron content. I believe this is one of the weapons that can be used against The Others. They hate iron and fire. So, Valyrian steel being made of iron made from fire and dragon bone being from dragons, fire made flesh, well you have yourself some pretty potent weapons against the Others. I brought this up pretty recently but not in as much detail.

[LmL]

I had considered the possibility that every V steel sword actually contains some of the "bloodstone" moon rock, but set it aside for various reasons. One of them is that I believe Ned's sword is unique, and the two layers and resistance to color changing is due to the presence of "bloodstone" in the sword. Of course I could be wrong, since we don't have a different example of a similar attempt to re-forge and color a V steel sword to compare it to. Nevertheless Tobho's statement about V steel remembering is valid either way in regards to your hypothesis of somewhat sentiment steel.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^I believe Tobho had difficulty because he did not make a sacrifice.

[Modesty Lannister]

On first read it reminds me of the Michael Moorcock series which I have not read but everyone lists as an influence - the magic swords (one called stormbringer) are actually demons who took the form of a sword. It seems George may have had an echo of that idea if your theory is correct. The swords aren't demons waiting to change back into entities, but, made from dragonbone, they contain a bit of the dragon's identity and memory. That's a pretty cool idea.

Ok, so now think of the "Dragonsteel" that the NW records refer to, as well as Collquo Votar. They thought it might simply mean Valyrian steel, but most fans have concluded that is too simple. I've been in this camp too, but if your theory is true then Valyrian steel is literally Dragonsteel, steel made from dragonbone.

Interestingly, "frozen fire" kind of applies to obsidian as well as dragonbone.

My question would be about equating a bone with high iron content to steel with a high iron content. The Valyrian steel could be infused with some of the "lively" qualities you noticed via spellcraft of course, perhaps the souls of those sacrificed to make the blade, or some remnant of living fire magic in the blade. But your hypothesis is a nice fit, if indeed Martin is intending to suggest the blades are alive. I know the Others swords and Dawn are both described with being "alive with light," and of course they aren't V steel. So, like most attempts to discern double meanings in Martin's work, there's always that grey area of descriptive language or double meaning. I pretty much pay rent to live in this area, so I know the feeling. We need to see if other swords ever receive such descriptions or only V steel.

It's always been apparent something is very unique about V steel - the two explanations are either a matter of ingredients, process, or both. Your solution is one of ingredients, and I think this is on the right track - it's not just spellcraft, I think. Firstly, dragonflame burns extremely hot (hot enough to melt stone is really ridiculously hot), and so if they use dragon flame to forge the sword, the high level of heat will drive out impurities more effectively. This alone makes their steel better and more pure. But I definitely think it must go farther, as we know spellcraft is involved.

Here's a big issue: if V steel is made with human blood sacrifice, it is inherently evil. No bones about it. (See why I did there? Yeah, you do, okay..) If it's made from dragonbone, then it's a little less heinous, isn't it? That seems an important difference.

Overall great post, and I enjoyed the background on steel working. I'll give this some more thought and let you know if I come up with anything. :cheers:

Thanks for your inmput LmL. Description of dragonbone in the book Tyrion was reading on his way to the wall led me go through most of the quotes dealing with Valyrian steel. And, unexpectedly, I found the quotes when it is pretty clear the sword is acting on its own or channaling the intent of its carrier. This happened to Jon when fighting Qorin with Longclaw and to Brienne when she fought. Since these were the only two actual fights with Valyrian steel sword in ASOIAF, described from a character's POV, I would not discount it as accidental. And then I reread the Qohor stuff and developed the whole thing. Note that after each beheading, Ned is cleaning his Ice in the WF godswood lake thus effectively sacrificing the blood of the beheaded to the Old Gods. I believe that the odd red colour on the reforged Ice actually belongs to Ned since his was the last head to be chopped off by Ice.

Also, I did not get into this, but you may be interested in the description of that red colour (blood) in Oathkeeper "drinking light" turning dark red.

[Modesty Lannister]

When Tyrion is reading the book The Properties of Dragons, he was reading a chapter called the properties of dragonbone I believe. It said that the bones of dragons were black because of its high iron content. I believe this is one of the weapons that can be used against The Others. They hate iron and fire. So, Valyrian steel being made of iron made from fire and dragon bone being from dragons, fire made flesh, well you have yourself some pretty potent weapons against the Others. I brought this up pretty recently but not in as much detail.

Indeed, remember when Sam and Jon discussed dragonsteel=Valyrian steel.

[TallTyrion]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1193/

Well that pretty much settles it.

[LmL]

Valyrian steel is basically the fantasy version of Damascus steel. Does anyone else notice the similarities

Yes, that's certainly true - V steel is a magical equivalent. But remember that when taking a real work thing (like fire or obsidian) and making a fantasy version, you have to add magic and personify. Obsidian is frozen fire.

[LmL]

Based on the Astronomy of Planetos threads, I think it's plausible Valyrian steel is made from celestial bodies, specifically chunks of a broken moon. The ore's similarity to dragons is what gave birth to the name dragon steel and the myth of dragons hatching from a shattered moon.

Definitely a possibility I've considered - but I'm not sure if there was just one sword made from the moon rock as opposed to ALL Valyrian steel later being made from a moon rock deposit.

[Ser Patroclo]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1193/

/thread :cool4: