Pigeon Pie Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Repeatedly, D&D said the show will end the same way the books do. Jon being everything that he is, he has more potential than any other character to figure prominently in the WW Vs. Dragon apocalypse. If he isn't coming back in the show but he is in the books, I can't see how the show may end the same way (unless D&D somehow try to give his role to somebody else, which, again, would never make sense, as no one living has the same unique birth and parentage and blood magic as Jon... except maybe Bloodraven who's a tree) Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it is important to remember that R+L=J is a fan theory, not a book plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midi Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it's important to remember that in the original ASOIAF outline GRRM submitted in 1993, Jon's parentage seems to matter only so that he could bang his sister (actually his cousin) Arya without feeling too guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Beyond that there are a million ways the book could end. Starks have been Kings in the North forever - they knelt to the Targaryans for a very short time of their existence. We know there will either be some cooperation or conflict between the Targaryans and Stark bloodlines as part of the story. Jon could be a red herring. Or just a possibility gone wrong. GRRM said of heroes making mistakes "Did they?" I take his meaning to be that just because someone fails doesn't mean they weren't doing the right thing. Maybe GRRM has decided to kill off Jon and that storyline because it has been spoiled by the readers. Much like the NW doomed themselves by killing Jon with their expectations of his failure, the readers have killed him with their expectations of his success. I am now actively rooting for Sansa to be the story hero. She is kissed by fire. What is Ygritte if not foreshadowing. Sansa will sack up and start moving down Boltons and best Littlefinger at his own game - getting him to whip up the Riverlands and Vale to take on any Northcomers, and eventually Lann the Clever the Lannisters out of Casterly Rock. Then she will Rains of Castamere them. Rickon or a reanimated Jon will receive instructions from Bran via the Weirnet to take down dragons with Weirwood arrows. Howland Reed will show up in the last episode and say something like "Oh, Jon is dead? Well that's too bad... he was The Prince that Was Promised." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it's important to remember that in the original ASOIAF outline GRRM submitted in 1993, Jon's parentage seems to matter only so that he could bang his sister (actually his cousin) Arya without feeling too guilty. Indeed - when I read that I realized GRRM my have no idea what a good ending is. I hope he sold D&D something better, that they are working towards. Re R+L=J, it is only a fan theory but I also happen to think it is a correct interpretation of the text and season 5 of the show has dropped some massive easter eggs in it's favor. Re Jon not coming back, I may be mistaken, but I didn't think they had worded it like that. I thought they had worded it as 'Jon Snow is dead' and re-enforced that point - he is dead. They have never said he isn't coming back, that I am aware of. So, it's obvious - either Jon will be raised by Mel, the Nights King, or a combination. Jon will be dead for the remainder of this saga - but this is a fantasy in which dead characters, like Beric, are essentially the same as live ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Repeatedly, D&D said the show will end the same way the books do. Jon being everything that he is, he has more potential than any other character to figure prominently in the WW Vs. Dragon apocalypse. If he isn't coming back in the show but he is in the books, I can't see how the show may end the same way (unless D&D somehow try to give his role to somebody else, which, again, would never make sense, as no one living has the same unique birth and parentage and blood magic as Jon... except maybe Bloodraven who's a tree) Discuss. Well except for the fact that he doesn't have any dragons, though I do agree he will play a prominent role in the upcoming battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I beleive they have confirmed that will be no resurrection either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I beleive they have confirmed that will be no resurrection either. Is a wight resurrected? Is a White Walker? Is the Nights King? I think it's fair to say Beric and LSH are resurrected, as they are humans brought back to life with R'hllors kiss. Not sure about all the bright blue eyed things though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayne's Sword Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I beleive they have confirmed that will be no resurrection either. do you know where this has been stated? think ill go and watch the care bears movie if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FantasyFan73 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I am just curious I agree martin may have decided to write jon out in order to 'trick' those fans who think they have it all worked out (and be unpredictable) ALL my unsullied friends are insisting they would have no-one to root for without jon...half insist they wont bother watching, and the other half refuse to believe he is dead. I just replied, you will be back for S6, but people seem much more insistent than after the red wedding etc. My partner has told me im watching S6 without her as she is done etc So, lets say we see jon snow burnt and definitely gone in S6E1 Will it affect viewing figures at all do you think? Past experience shows the show grows despite outrage over various events?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it's important to remember that in the original ASOIAF outline GRRM submitted in 1993, Jon's parentage seems to matter only so that he could bang his sister (actually his cousin) Arya without feeling too guilty. Honestly I think it's safe to say that's gotta have been abandoned, because they'd have to age Maisie tremendously for this not to be completely creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Flashheart Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I beleive they have confirmed that will be no resurrection either.I bet you believe strippers really like you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So, lets say we see jon snow burnt and definitely gone in S6E1 Will it affect viewing figures at all do you think? Past experience shows the show grows despite outrage over various events?. Good question - I think that yes, it will, a lot of viewers may give up. The show has made Tyrion into a way bigger hero than the books and I thought that out of the 3 show characters (Dany. Jon & Tyrion) Tyrion was the most popular, so viewers might hang on for him. Dany also has a few in her court. But, there is no doubt the Jon is the single most sympathetic hero type character in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I am just curious I agree martin may have decided to write jon out in order to 'trick' those fans who think they have it all worked out (and be unpredictable) ALL my unsullied friends are insisting they would have no-one to root for without jon...half insist they wont bother watching, and the other half refuse to believe he is dead. I just replied, you will be back for S6, but people seem much more insistent than after the red wedding etc. My partner has told me im watching S6 without her as she is done etc So, lets say we see jon snow burnt and definitely gone in S6E1 Will it affect viewing figures at all do you think? Past experience shows the show grows despite outrage over various events?. It's happened before, that a good show makes mistakes and viewership plummets. Too many examples to even bother listing. My unsullied spouse was *pissed* Sunday night. He said: "You have got to be kidding me." then "Why am I watching this show? There's no one left to root for." We don't subscribe to HBO. In the past we bought the seasons on iTunes, and this year we subscribed to HBO Go specifically to watch it, he has to deliberately make a choice next year if he wants to see it, and spend money. So yes, they can actually lose viewers (and money). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It's happened before, that a good show makes mistakes and viewership plummets. Too many examples to even bother listing. My unsullied spouse was *pissed* Sunday night. He said: "You have got to be kidding me." then "Why am I watching this show? There's no one left to root for." We don't subscribe to HBO. In the past we bought the seasons on iTunes, and this year we subscribed to HBO Go specifically to watch it, he has to deliberately make a choice next year if he wants to see it, and spend money. So yes, they can actually lose viewers (and money). Has your unsullied spouse ever watched to the end of a series of survivor (or something similar) even when he dislikes all the remaining contestants? I know I have and I know you try to pick someone to like out of what's left, but it doesn't feel the same as a season where you actually like 1 of the final contestants. In some ways GoTs is like a season of survivor spread over 7 years, though I'm hoping the ending has a bit more meaning. Do survivor viewer numbers drop dramatically when only shitty contestants are left late in a season or not? Do people prefer to root for people they like, or hate on people they don't? Other than saying it depends on the person, I don't know? What's the overall trend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maesteress Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it's important to remember that in the original ASOIAF outline GRRM submitted in 1993, Jon's parentage seems to matter only so that he could bang his sister (actually his cousin) Arya without feeling too guilty. This is proof of what a great writer and story developer GRRM is (and fortunately, that he ultimately makes good decisions with his characters lol). And also why it takes him years to complete books. That may have been an original outline. We're 20+ years and 5 books later....and that original idea isn't anywhere in ANY of the books (or the show). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it's important to remember that in the original ASOIAF outline GRRM submitted in 1993, Jon's parentage seems to matter only so that he could bang his sister (actually his cousin) Arya without feeling too guilty. What original outline? I've never heard of this before. Where can I find this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think it is important to remember that R+L=J is a fan theory, not a book plot. There's no reason in the world it can't be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There's no reason in the world it can't be both. And no reason to suppose that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 What original outline? I've never heard of this before. Where can I find this? There was a letter from GRRM to his editor (or to a publishing house, can't remember now) with the original draft of what ASOIAF was meant to be. The plot was very different (I liked it a lot, tbh) and included things like Tyrion burning Winterfell, Sansa marrying Joffrey and Jon and Tyrion falling in love with Arya. It's somewhere in the General Threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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