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Wise Man's Fear Spoilers Thread (SPOILERS)


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#101 Spooky Scary Jurble

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 03:01 AM

Kote is still Kvothe, he hasn't really changed his name in whatever manner Elodin was thinking of. He still thinks of himself as Kvothe, I imagine the way Elodin was thinking was more Lanre -> Haliax, a total identity and personality shift + evil powers. And Folly is not Caesura, Folly is Folly. Caesura is somewhere else in his trunk, or lost, or hidden, or destroyed who knows. The only time a name change would be useful would be if someone Named Kvothe, and had total control over him, in which case he'd have to pull a Lanre -> Haliax. Kote doesn't really cut it.

Edited by Jurble, 07 March 2011 - 03:04 AM.


#102 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 04:35 AM

Another point to add, Book 3 is likely going to be titled 'the Doors of Stone." Pat told me this, and it's also on his Wiki page.


Ahh, interesting. The losers of the creation war being sealed behind doors of stone becomes more important.

#103 Ser Scot A Ellison

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:36 AM

Jurble

Kote is still Kvothe, he hasn't really changed his name in whatever manner Elodin was thinking of. He still thinks of himself as Kvothe, I imagine the way Elodin was thinking was more Lanre -> Haliax, a total identity and personality shift + evil powers. And Folly is not Caesura, Folly is Folly. Caesura is somewhere else in his trunk, or lost, or hidden, or destroyed who knows. The only time a name change would be useful would be if someone Named Kvothe, and had total control over him, in which case he'd have to pull a Lanre -> Haliax. Kote doesn't really cut it.


Lanre died and Lyra brought Lanre back from death. It is possible she did this by changing his name somehow from someone who was dead to someone who was alive and thereby fundamentily altered who Lanre was bringing about his change into Haliax? We know that by the time Lanre got to Myr Tarinal Lyra was dead my thinking is she killed herself when she saw what she had done to the man she loved by bringing him back to life.

#104 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:51 AM

Lanre died and Lyra brought Lanre back from death. It is possible she did this by changing his name somehow from someone who was dead to someone who was alive and thereby fundamentily altered who Lanre was bringing about his change into Haliax? We know that by the time Lanre got to Myr Tarinal Lyra was dead my thinking is she killed herself when she saw what she had done to the man she loved by bringing him back to life.


Wow, nice. So maybe a skilled namer could kill him by changing his name back? But Selitos couldn't do it.

#105 Spoony

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 06:34 AM

Wow, nice. So maybe a skilled namer could kill him by changing his name back? But Selitos couldn't do it.


You might not be able to name what no longer exists.
Sounds like impossible guess work in the context of what we know of the series so far. Although next to nothing about shaping names is known so far.

#106 Ser Scot A Ellison

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 06:40 AM

Spoony,

My point is that a "Name" is more than a word identifying "Bob". It's everything Bob is and has been up until that point. Hence Elodin's incredible respect when he suspects Kvothe actually found Felurian's "Name" and the overall difficulty in naming any given individual. I have to believe that one of the aspects of the "Name" is the current physical status of the entity being named. As such if Lyra changed Lanre's name from "dead" to "alive" it would have profound effects upon Lanre and may have led to his current condition.

#107 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:35 AM

Sounds like impossible guess work in the context of what we know of the series so far.


That's never stopped us before. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

Scott, yes. It's similar to the theory about Kvothe changing his name (or having it changed by someone else). It's not just changing his calling name from Kvothe to Kote. That's trivial. It's his name that's been changed (speculative, of course).

#108 Ser Scot A Ellison

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:49 AM

SM,

Maybe he had to change his "Name". I who ever is hunting him has his blood I doubt his Gram would prevent them from finding him. Perhaps changing his "Name" was the only way to hide effectively?

#109 R_Thunder

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:56 AM

Just finished last night. Really enjoyed it, still a fast page turner like the first.

Really hard to speculate on what is going on due to the vagueness. I would suspect Kvothe's loss of power has something to do with Denna. I also think he opens these "doors" and lets something loose in the world.

Quick notes
- Elodin knows something of the Fae, as in Kvothes first examination he asks something along the lines of "where does the moon go?".
- What happened to Ben? Elodin says 1 student in a 1000 years can call the name of the wind...
- Lots of WoT references.
- A LOT will happen in the 3rd book. Kvothe is 17 now? Not yet 30 as Kote? Lot of years to make up.

#110 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:13 AM

SM,

Maybe he had to change his "Name". I who ever is hunting him has his blood I doubt his Gram would prevent them from finding him. Perhaps changing his "Name" was the only way to hide effectively?


Possible. And I still think his name is locked in "The Thrice-Locked Chest of Kvothe the Bloodless". Maybe he did it himself, thinking that he could use naming to get it out again, but lost the ability?

#111 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:19 AM

- Elodin knows something of the Fae, as in Kvothes first examination he asks something along the lines of "where does the moon go?".


Yes, and later he swears not to report Auri "By the ever-changing moon".

- What happened to Ben? Elodin says 1 student in a 1000 years can call the name of the wind...


Yeah, it's a good question. Presumably, due to Elodin's youth, Ben studied under the previous Master Namer. Surely an arcanist who can name the wind would be highly prized? Maybe Ben cracked.

- A LOT will happen in the 3rd book. Kvothe is 17 now? Not yet 30 as Kote? Lot of years to make up.


I think he's mid-20's now. But he might look older than he is, I don't think we've had a definitive age.

#112 Blue Steel

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:22 AM

Just finished last night. Really enjoyed it, still a fast page turner like the first.

Really hard to speculate on what is going on due to the vagueness. I would suspect Kvothe's loss of power has something to do with Denna. I also think he opens these "doors" and lets something loose in the world.

Quick notes
- Elodin knows something of the Fae, as in Kvothes first examination he asks something along the lines of "where does the moon go?".
- What happened to Ben? Elodin says 1 student in a 1000 years can call the name of the wind...
- Lots of WoT references.
- A LOT will happen in the 3rd book. Kvothe is 17 now? Not yet 30 as Kote? Lot of years to make up.


I'll need to check but I'm pretty sure he says that 1 student in 1000 [students] can call the name of the wind, not 1000 years.

#113 polishgenius

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:01 AM

Yeah, if it was one in 1000 years what would be the chances of both Elodin and Kvothe knowing it? Especially since it's, iirc, implied that the wind is the easiest Name to call, so the others would be even rarer, and most of the masters know at least one.

Edited by polishgenius, 07 March 2011 - 09:01 AM.


#114 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:10 AM

I think the question holds, though, naming is still fairly unusual and powerful, and Ben is little more than a jumped up peddler.

And i'm not sure whether naming the wind is the easiest? Students were encouraged to learn it first, because it made naming other things easier.

#115 Mexal

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:25 AM

I'll need to check but I'm pretty sure he says that 1 student in 1000 [students] can call the name of the wind, not 1000 years.


I thought it was this as well.

Finished the book today. Really enjoyed it. Rothfuss has such a great way of telling a story that it was quite the page turner. I had no problems with the Adem parts though I did wish he'd get back to the Maer. Like the first, loads and loads of hints with very little major payoff. I feel like nothing that happened in the book was earth shattering, just led to more questions.

#116 Pufferfish123

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 12:01 PM

My first post here, after lurking for a while... I really enjoyed the book, I though it was definately an improvement on The Name of The Wind.

I just wanted to point out the evidence for Meluan being Kvothe's aunt in the song that Kvothe tells Sim and Will his father wrote about his mother, which confused the hell out of me when I first read it but now makes a lot of sense:

Dark Laurian, Arliden's wife,
Has a face like a blade of a knife
Has a voice like a prickledown burr
But can tally a sum like a moneylender.
My sweet Tally cannot cook.
But she keeps a tidy ledger-book
For all her faults I do confess
It's worth my life
To make my wife
Not tally a lot less...


The song implies that he calls his wife Tally because she's good with numbers, but the much more likely reason is because Tally is short for Netalia... furthermore, the last three lines can basically be read as "It's worth my life to make my wife Netalia Lockless". It seems likely that the real reason Kvothe's mother made his father sleep under the wagon after he made that song is not because it had a bad meter as Kvothe claims but because it gave away her identity as Netalia Lockless.

#117 Ser Scot A Ellison

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 12:08 PM

Puffer,

Welcome, great catch. I think it's pretty clear now that Kvothe's mother is the Lady Lockless.

#118 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 12:18 PM

Amazing.

Hurrah for noobs. /cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

#119 Lothlorian

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:17 PM

When is Kvothe going to meet Ben again? I was actually surprised that when Kvothe decided to share his newfound wealth with those who had helped him in the past (i.e. going to Trapis in Tarbean) he didn't attempt to find Ben. In fact, Ben isn't mentioned by Kvothe after he initially leaves the troupe. When it happens, Kvothe says that "I knew the truth. It would be a great long time before I saw him again. Years." (US Hardcover 109) Even though at this point the troupe is still alive and Kvothe had the legitimate belief that the troupe would eventually pass there again, it implies that he will see him again. The city Ben stayed in was called Hallowfell, and is actually on the map. If Kvothe can go from the University to the Aturian Empire or to the Ademre, why hasn't he attempted to seek out his former teacher who (last he knew) was closer?

#120 Poobah

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 03:29 PM

My first post here, after lurking for a while... I really enjoyed the book, I though it was definately an improvement on The Name of The Wind.

I just wanted to point out the evidence for Meluan being Kvothe's aunt in the song that Kvothe tells Sim and Will his father wrote about his mother, which confused the hell out of me when I first read it but now makes a lot of sense:

Dark Laurian, Arliden's wife,
Has a face like a blade of a knife
Has a voice like a prickledown burr
But can tally a sum like a moneylender.
My sweet Tally cannot cook.
But she keeps a tidy ledger-book
For all her faults I do confess
It's worth my life
To make my wife
Not tally a lot less...


The song implies that he calls his wife Tally because she's good with numbers, but the much more likely reason is because Tally is short for Netalia... furthermore, the last three lines can basically be read as "It's worth my life to make my wife Netalia Lockless". It seems likely that the real reason Kvothe's mother made his father sleep under the wagon after he made that song is not because it had a bad meter as Kvothe claims but because it gave away her identity as Netalia Lockless.


Hell of a spot!