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[Book Spoilers] Qhorin Half-Brain..err I mean Half-Hand


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#1 xythil

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:20 AM

In the books the Half-Hand is shown to be a competent and battle harded ranger.

He doesn't need Ygritte dead and tests John snows character in the book. This doesn't come across in the show AT ALL. He just looks like a fool. How could they leave out the "If I wanted her dead I would have done it myself" =/

Then we get NO scenes of Qhorin and his rangers showing their badassery... with Dalbridge holding off MANY wildlings...trying to give Jon and him time to escape.

Jon Snow also comes across looking like a tard.

We lose all this and gain what? A few Ygritte humping Jons leg escapades?

Sad deal =/

#2 clairvoyantcat

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:30 AM

Yeah, more importantly it seems that, from the way they showed it, a lot of people are confused and think that Jon straight up murdered him out of anger, do to the yo mama jokes Qorin was making and what-not.

#3 Bayard

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:35 AM

They completely destroyed Jon Snow's story, and I think his part in ACOK was the best of his story arc. Well, Qhorin was not only a competent ranger, he was the best in the NW, and the best swordsman. Nobody would believe that a 15 years old could defeat him!!! (well, I guess 18 in the show, but not even then). I mean come on, Mance even asks how could Jon defeat the Qhorin, only when he hears about Ghost he believes it. So yeah, Qhorin looks like an idiot, and Jon like the biggest idiot in all of ASOIAF.

I mean, I looked very carefuly to the scene, Jon didn't kill him because he figured out what Qhorin wanted of him, no, he did it because Qhorin kept making him angry.... so, Jon looks like a spoiled little brat!! WHY WHY WHY did they destroy Jon's story ???? it was so good in the book /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> all the changes they made, they did them just because they though they could improve the story.... not because of the translation from book to screen. DAMN D&D!!! (maybe I will calm down in a couple of days and change my mind)

Edited by Bayard, 04 June 2012 - 09:45 AM.


#4 Septon Meribald

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:01 AM

Yes, I was waiting for Qhorin to order Jon to do what needs to be done, but it never came. I also waited for Ghost's return to win the fight for Jon, but that didn't happen either. I think it seriously hurts Jon's credibility both with the Wildlings, that he was able to kill Qhorin without Qhorin letting him, and with the Watch later, that he did all that he did under the direction of Qhorin. Jon's changes were definitely the most troublesome for me this season.

#5 Versiroth

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:03 AM

They completely destroyed Jon Snow's story, and I think his part in ACOK was the best of his story arc. Well, Qhorin was not only a competent ranger, he was the best in the NW, and the best swordsman. Nobody would believe that a 15 years old could defeat him!!! (well, I guess 18 in the show, but not even then). I mean come on, Mance even asks how could Jon defeat the Qhorin, only when he hears about Ghost he believes it. So yeah, Qhorin looks like an idiot, and Jon like the biggest idiot in all of ASOIAF.

I mean, I looked very carefuly to the scene, Jon didn't kill him because he figured out what Qhorin wanted of him, no, he did it because Qhorin kept making him angry.... so, Jon looks like a spoiled little brat!! WHY WHY WHY did they destroy Jon's story ???? it was so good in the book /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> all the changes they made, they did them just because they though they could improve the story.... not because of the translation from book to screen. DAMN D&D!!! (maybe I will calm down in a couple of days and change my mind)




WRONG. Quorin told John in the episodes leading up to that one that one crow within Manse's army was worth 100 outside. Or something like that. Then john said that they'd never trust him and Quorin said "they will if you do what needs to be done" and pushes him down all the while calling him a traitor. John knew very well what we was supposed to do and the look on his face was not anger, but regret and sadness.

#6 Howdyphillip

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:04 AM

I had the belief that Jon's motivations for killing Qhorin didn't come across as well. I thought that the show must have ruined his character also. Then I talked to about 10 people who did not read the books but watched the show. Every single one of them understood what happened and that Jon did not forsake his vows. I then went on to read reviews online, and every single mention of the incident says that Qhorin gave up his life so that Jon could gain the trust of the wildlings and act as a spy.

This is the meat of the story told in the book. This is the heart of the characterization so I am not upset by the changes. Especially changes that allowed me to spend more time with Rose Leslie on my television screen

#7 drigoly

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:06 AM

bad script writing is bad, realy lame plot between jon/qhorin.

#8 Pellaeon

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:12 AM

I hoped for a little chat between Jon and the halfhand, like in the books, but no, Jon is a deserter now, even worse we cant even say Slynt was wrong by trying to hang him

#9 Versiroth

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

I hoped for a little chat between Jon and the halfhand, like in the books, but no, Jon is a deserter now, even worse we cant even say Slynt was wrong by trying to hang him



Wow... some of you guys really miss a lot of what goes on in the show....

#10 Apoapsis

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

Yeah, more importantly it seems that, from the way they showed it, a lot of people are confused and think that Jon straight up murdered him out of anger, do to the yo mama jokes Qorin was making and what-not.

That's not confusion, that's exactly what Jon did. In the TV show.

#11 The Meeraculous Third Reed

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:24 AM

I have been rather critical of this storyline all season, and yesterday didn't really help the case for the defence IMO.

I will tell you what would have been a better way of spending time and money. Instead of the extended White Walkers scene (why did we need to see them?), I would have much preferred thirty seconds to make it clear to the viewer as to why Jon was killing Qhorin, and for the show to actually use Ghost to kill Qhorin, making it clear that this is the only way Jon can defeat this legendary Ranger.

#12 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:26 AM

I had the belief that Jon's motivations for killing Qhorin didn't come across as well. I thought that the show must have ruined his character also. Then I talked to about 10 people who did not read the books but watched the show. Every single one of them understood what happened and that Jon did not forsake his vows. I then went on to read reviews online, and every single mention of the incident says that Qhorin gave up his life so that Jon could gain the trust of the wildlings and act as a spy.

This is the meat of the story told in the book. This is the heart of the characterization so I am not upset by the changes. Especially changes that allowed me to spend more time with Rose Leslie on my television screen


it's one thing for the audience to understand what qhorin was doing, but it did not seem as though jon understood what qhorin was doing until he had already killed him, which is WAY too late. there should have been a look of understanding at the first, not after all was said and done. he's a murderer. jon snow the crow killer.

#13 Dracarya

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

Wow... some of you guys really miss a lot of what goes on in the show....


Really? It's not clear why Qhorin provokes Jon, especially to the average viewer who isn't watching for every little detail. Taunting Jon with yo mama jokes was just ridiculously lame, and overrides the fact that Qhorin did mention getting Mance to trust Jon. Now Jon just looks like a violent, pouty little baby because someone insulted his mum. Unfortunately this is just one of the very many things that have been wrecked this season.

#14 Howdyphillip

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:33 AM

it's one thing for the audience to understand what qhorin was doing, but it did not seem as though jon understood what qhorin was doing until he had already killed him, which is WAY too late. there should have been a look of understanding at the first, not after all was said and done. he's a murderer. jon snow the crow killer.


I had the exact same fear as well.because of all of the alterations to the story line. It turns out that it was only my fear as all of the unsullied have the same understanding of the character as I do as a book reader. It was established that both Jon and Qhorin set this fight up so that Jon could infiltrate the wildling army.

This does not negate the fact that we didn't get to see what kind of a fighter Qhorin was, or how savvy he actually played this move...

Edited by Holafernando Torres, 04 June 2012 - 10:35 AM.


#15 Morvran

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

It's more a matter of poor production. They should know better than to expect viewers to remember what amounted to a throw-away scene from a couple weeks ago where Qhorin gives Jon the "instructions" on how to carry on forward with the wildlings. They needed to have a final order from Qhorin to help make sense of their little battle.

On the Ghost front, I assumed they'd leave Ghost out of it altogether. In the book(s) Ghost is around until Mance begins riding south and Jon tells him to go to the wall. Then Jon doesn't see him again until the attack on the Wall is finished. I figured they'd just expand that time to encompass the entire Mance intro, journey to the Wall, and attack to save cgi costs. I don't have a major problem with it.

#16 David Selig

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:38 AM

The whole sequence was really dumb. Qhorin, notorious among the wildlings for being the most dangerous ranger of the all, was allowed to get a sword so easily?

#17 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:39 AM

I had the exact same fear as well.because of all of the alterations to the story line. It turns out that it was only my fear as all of the unsullied have the same understanding of the character as I do as a book reader. It was established that both Jon and Qhorin set this fight up so that Jon could infiltrate the wildling army.


well i'm glad that non-readers came away with that impression, although i believe they are wrong. i've watched the episode twice, and i never see anything to indicate that jon is on the same page as qhorin (until possibly when long claw is sticking through qhorin), in fact, it seems anger was the true motivation for jon to kill qhorin, not an understanding of what qhorin was trying to do. that is my impression, as a reader, of the that event.

#18 Tadco26

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:42 AM

They also didn't really explain why the wildlings and particularly Rattleshirt would set Jon free just because Qhorin attacked him. Jon still hasn't even said he wishes to join them, in comparison to the books where Jon says he will join them and then Rattleshirt tells him to kill Qhorin, and Rattleshirt still doesn't ever trust him.

Of course killing TV Qhorin who has been captured already isn't as impressive as killing Qhorin, best ranger in the watch anyway. The sad thing is that it wouldn't have taken any more screen time or budget to keep it like the books minus Ghost helping Jon.

#19 Versiroth

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:46 AM

it's one thing for the audience to understand what qhorin was doing, but it did not seem as though jon understood what qhorin was doing until he had already killed him, which is WAY too late. there should have been a look of understanding at the first, not after all was said and done. he's a murderer. jon snow the crow killer.


They just showed what Jon and Qhorin had talked about in the "previously on GoTs" and Qhorin told Jon that he must do what needs to be done. He did as Qhorin instructed.

#20 Winter's Lady

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

I am so disappointed in the handling of Jon's storyline this season. Admittedly, he's my favourite character, so I might be a little overreacting, but from the way the writing of his character is done on the show...man, I don't like it one bit.

From this episode(and the whole season, really) one could get the impression that Jon is now either a turncloak or an overimpulsive teenager. Was it really that hard to find 2 minutes worth of screentime for a Jon/Qhorin dialogue, to get a little background on especially Qhorin's actions? No, of course not, we had to have an unnecessary Ros/Varys scene (no Ros hater here, but c'mon, you only have so much time, focus on important sutff).

Qhorin was such a great character in the books, and on the show he'S just a shell of his self, most of his dialogue sacrificed for pointless drabble. He really came across as a half-brain in this episode, attacking Jon just like this...did he suddenly suffer brain freeze or what?

This fight scene was my favourite chapter in ACOK besides the HotU, and they butchered both of those scenes...no emotional impact, no nothing..."I am disappoint" doesn't even begin to cover it.