Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'

[The_Mummers_King]

I think Maggie's words are more symbolic than literal. Most prophecies in the story don't always appear to be so straight forward. I don't believe any of Cersei's family will kill her. It will be Arya Stark when she receives an assignment to give Cersei "The Gift." For all of Cersei's awful doings I believe she will be in for the most brutal downward spiral of all the characters in the books. She will have lost her children, her lover/brother, her Titles, and her freedom she will have nothing left. The Valonqar will be a Faceless Man, Ironically Arya Stark, who will get to cross the last name off her list by giving her poison to kill herself.

[Ser Gareth]

I think Maggie's words are more symbolic than literal. Most prophecies in the story don't always appear to be so straight forward. I don't believe any of Cersei's family will kill her. It will be Arya Stark when she receives an assignment to give Cersei "The Gift." For all of Cersei's awful doings I believe she will be in for the most brutal downward spiral of all the characters in the books. She will have lost her children, her lover/brother, her Titles, and her freedom she will have nothing left. The Valonqar will be a Faceless Man, Ironically Arya Stark, who will get to cross the last name off her list by giving her poison to kill herself.

It'll be Jaime. In AGOT there was Bran's dream involving what seemed to be UnGregor, the Hound and Jaime. There's also been two foreshadowing comments. One of the previous twins who died on each other's blades. The other one where Jaime says something like they'll die like they came into the world. Together. Also it's why Cersei popping out first was revealed.

It's going to be something to do with Sansa. Jaime will complete his redemption arc by saving Sansa from UnGregor (who is sent by Cersei to kill Sansa).

[nategator]

Nah, it's Tommen. After he's killed (he'll be the last to die), he'll be wighted by the Others or brought back by Qyburn. As the books show, one of the favorite ways wights like to kill people is through strangulation. It's simple grammar, really:

Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

If it was Cersie's volanqar, then Maggy would have said "your valonqar". Instead, she said "the valonqar." In tracing the pronouns, "you" or "your" are Cersie, "him" is Robert, and third person "their" is Cersei's three children. Thus, "the" volongar is the younger brother of Cersei's children, Tommen.

Faulkner's "the human heart in conflict with itself" indeed. What better conflict for Cersei is the conflict of her ferocious material instinct vs her ferocious survival instinct? It's classic Martin irony. The most important thing she seeks to prevent (her death) is caused by the one thing she seeks to preserve among all others (save the lives of her children). Prophecy is a bitch.

[Delaera]

I'm betting on Tyrion.

"the valonqar" means "the little brother"....makes sense to me its Tyrion Lannister.

Jaime wouldn't harm a golden hair on Cercei's head. Besides, Tyrion has been wanting to "choke" the life out of Cersei for a very long time..

[Attitude]

Since it’s the ‘young brother/sister’ there are many options. The ones that make sense IMO are:

- Tyrion (seems to obvious)

- Arya (Also to obvious, but it could also be her ‘final’ assignment (for herself))

- Sansa (Robbs little sister, would be the ultimate revenge since Cersei screwed her big time)

- Stannis (But taking the show in consideration it’s not that likely. They didn’t show that prophecy for nothing)

- Aegon (Again, taking the show in consideration it’s not that likely)

- Daenerys (Little sister of Viserys)

Maybe some more…

Most of them don’t make sense really. I hope it will be Sansa.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I think Maggie's words are more symbolic than literal. Most prophecies in the story don't always appear to be so straight forward. I don't believe any of Cersei's family will kill her. It will be Arya Stark when she receives an assignment to give Cersei "The Gift." For all of Cersei's awful doings I believe she will be in for the most brutal downward spiral of all the characters in the books. She will have lost her children, her lover/brother, her Titles, and her freedom she will have nothing left. The Valonqar will be a Faceless Man, Ironically Arya Stark, who will get to cross the last name off her list by giving her poison to kill herself.

Come on. Maggy is the most literal person in the books: "Will the king and I have kids?" "Aye, him ten-and-six and you three".

Other fortune tellers might revel in cryptic symbolic prophety mumbo-jumbo, but that girl gives it to you straight.

[Amris]

I notice that nearly no poster spends a thought on why Maggy uses the Valyrian word 'valonqar' instead of younger brother.

Why suddenly switch language in her wording? GRRM does not just pull something like that language-switch out of his hat for no reason. To me at least this sounds like a clue.

Proceeding on this track: It sounds like a clue pointing in a Valyrian direction. Valyrian in turn points in a Targaryen direction since we do not have a lot of other Valyrian families involved in the King's Landing plotlines.

I have already posted what I believe upthread and do not want to repeat it here. Rather the point I am trying to make is whatever theory will prove to be right in the end - it will likely be one with some sort of Targaryen component.

Speculate ahead.

[Sir popelor]

Tommen all the way, it's the one that make more sense in shock value and irony, and since Qyburn is definetly NOT on Cercei's side, I bet he will have some part in it ;)

[king 0f the north]

the only way for jamie to get away from the brother hood without banners is if he swears to kill cercei. jamie is her little brother i think i remmber her saying that when they came out he was holding on to her foot. i think tommen will die but he may have a baby in his wife buy then, there for having a younger and more beautfull queen taking everything away from her. then jamie will get back from the riverlands and kill that silly tart

[nategator]

Tommen all the way, it's the one that make more sense in shock value and irony, and since Qyburn is definetly NOT on Cercei's side, I bet he will have some part in it ;)

To add to our interpretation that it's Tommen, let's reexamine the Q&A nature of the prophecy.

Cersei: When will I wed the prince?

Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.

Cersei: I will be queen, though?

Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear

Here the answer's subject or topic is always limited by the scope of the question. (Will I wed the prince? No the king. Will I be queen? Sure, until a younger and prettier queen casts you down and takes all you hold dear).

On a related note, either Dany or Margery could fit the younger and more beautiful queen, with Margery being the most likely as she has taken Joffrey (and probably was involved in his killing), Tommen, and possibly Myrcella.

So what about the valonqar?

Cersei: Will the king and I have children?

Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

The subject is children of Robert & Cersei, with the focus on Cersei's children. Cersei will have three children, they will be crowned in gold and shrouded in gold, and after Cersei mourns the death of her three children, the little brother (i.e. Tommen) will kill Cersei through strangulation. Notably, the subject never includes Cersei's brothers, Starks, Aegon Daenerys, etc. It's solely Cersei's children or, to a lesser extent, Robert's children.

Thus, Tommen is the most likely candidate if you actually read the prophecy as it is written.

Note, I like your idea of Qyburn and admit it's even more potentially more deliciously ironic but I'm still guessing it's an Others rez.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Since it’s the ‘young brother/sister’ there are many options. The ones that make sense IMO are:

- Tyrion (seems to obvious)

- Arya (Also to obvious, but it could also be her ‘final’ assignment (for herself))

- Sansa (Robbs little sister, would be the ultimate revenge since Cersei screwed her big time)

- Stannis (But taking the show in consideration it’s not that likely. They didn’t show that prophecy for nothing)

- Aegon (Again, taking the show in consideration it’s not that likely)

- Daenerys (Little sister of Viserys)

So, when Arya, Sansa or Dany strangles Cersei with his hands... when, precisely, did either of them become a "he"?

the only way for jamie to get away from the brother hood without banners is if he swears to kill cercei.

He swears? With his record? The Kingslayer?

He could maybe try to bribe them with a half-eaten, partially rotten onion, it would have larger perceived value than his oath.

[Mr Hodor]

valonquar =Benjen Stark. Ned's little brother. It is known.

[nategator]

He swears? With his record? The Kingslayer?

He could maybe try to bribe them with a half-eaten, partially rotten onion, it would have larger perceived value than his oath.

I would add: To Lady Stoneheart? Who hissed at the name Oathkeeper?!?

[Ser Alex Dayne]

This is my first try at this, and i just came up with this looking at the prophecy.

Cersei:''Will the king and i have children?''

Maggy:''Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you.''

Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the volanqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

^ I think looking at this chronologically, it implies that all of Cersei's kids will die before the Volanqar kills her. So this could suggest Tommen and Myrcella will soon die, which will surely drown Cersei in tears.

As for the volanqar, it is said to mean little brother, but i think that is a big red herring. I might be over-thinking, but notice how it says 'The volanqar'. Why would Maggy call it 'The Little brother'?

''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

it would make much more sense for it to be 'Your little brother', wouldn't it? What is my point? My point is that looking at the whole passage, it makes sense that the volanqar could in fact mean father instead of little brother. In the passage the kids are mentioned, and then 'the volanqar', i think 'the father' would fit in perfectly, after mentioning the kids.

Read it like this. Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the father shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

It also makes sense cause before in the same prophecy, Maggy mentions that Robert will have many kids, and Cersei will have three, and then she mentions how the kids will have golden crowns and golden shrouds, but whats missing? The father. The whole part of the prophecy seems to be missing who will be the father to these children. Cersei asked about the children she will have, don't you think Maggy would have found out that her children will actually only be through incest? which is why i'm pretty sure 'The Volanqar' means the father (Jaime) and not little brother, which doesn't fit in the passage at all

How did i do?

I mean It's a good theory to have jaime be the one to kill cersie as tyrion is to obvious but there is one problem with this theory, cersie and jaime are twins,yes, but cersie was born before jaime so jaime is still her little brother and so the volanqar could still mean little brother and not imply father and still mean jaime

[Ser Alex Dayne]

Umm, valonquar means "little brother." That's not in dispute, is it? I don't mean to offend, but this argument is kind of ridiculous. Because the person talking used "the" instead of "your", then the stated definition of the word is completely wrong -- despite absolutely no other evidence for that -- and it really means something completely else? I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. If Maggy had meant "father," she would have used the word for father.

That all said, I think Jaime is likely the valoquar, but in the little brother sense.

If there's any linguistic curiousity to me is why say "little brother" and only that, in Valyrian?

I think the reason that is said in valyrian is because, and think about it, valyrian is largely associated with the dragonlords which the targs are so it is likely something to do with targs, now the targs are known for incest to keep the bloodline pure. Who else dabble in incest?...Cersie and Jaime so it's a subtle hint that it's jaime and not tyrion at least that's my interpretation

[The Lord of Cinder]

My theorizing is based on a lot of ... well ... theorizing, but I think Cersei's death will tie into the dream Bran had about the three shadowy figures.

Part of Brans dream from AGoT: There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armoured like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armour made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

I think it's commonly accepted that one is the Hound, and another is the Mountain/Robert Strong, while the identity of the third shadow is more up for debate, but it is most likely Jaime because of his golden Kingsguard armor. This dream already foreshadowed Robert Strong, and is possibly foreshadowing the fact that these three characters will have important roles to play in some event. The Hound and the Mountain are obviously tied together since they are brothers who hate each other, but how does Jaime fit into the picture? So the theory is that the Hound will be the Faith's champion in Cersei's trial, and he'll fight Robert Strong (Cleganebowl, get hype), but while they fight for Cersei's fate, her fate will not be decided by the outcome of the battle, but by Jaime, who will play the role of the Valonqar (Wouldn't it be fitting for Jaime to strangle the woman he loved with a golden hand, when Tyrion strangled the woman he loved with a chain of golden hands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CS7j5I6aOc).Thus will not only the valonqar prophecy be fulfilled, but the three shadows in Bran's dream will also be tied to a big event and the fate of a major character.

I mean, Jaime is the most likely Valonqar. I just really want the Cleganebowl to happen.

[The Little Sister]

Umm, valonquar means "little brother." That's not in dispute, is it? I don't mean to offend, but this argument is kind of ridiculous. Because the person talking used "the" instead of "your", then the stated definition of the word is completely wrong -- despite absolutely no other evidence for that -- and it really means something completely else? I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. If Maggy had meant "father," she would have used the word for father. That all said, I think Jaime is likely the valoquar, but in the little brother sense.If there's any linguistic curiousity to me is why say "little brother" and only that, in Valyrian?

This. Tyrion is the red herring. The text specifically states that Cersei was born first.

[Zenthious]

This may be stretching it a bit, but after reading the story of Circe, I am under the impression that it may be Edric Storm who finds and kills Cersei. He would have a small drop of Targaryen blood in him through Robert which may be the reason for using a Valyrian word to describe him. That, and he would have a lot of reason to hate Cersei. Especially if word of why she is on trial reaches back to him in Lys.