Spoiler free impressions of aMoL...

[Poobah]

I do think a line was sold that "RJ had extensive notes for everything, BS is just writing the words, not the plot" or something to that effect. Which over the years was gradually pulled back to have been total lies.

[fionwe1987]

I do think a line was sold that "RJ had extensive notes for everything, BS is just writing the words, not the plot" or something to that effect. Which over the years was gradually pulled back to have been total lies.

This.

Now, that document, if that is indeed the one that that made Luckers angry, isn't about a discussion of which theory is right. BRandon pretty clearly is going against cannon there. By KoD, we knew that all Shadowspawn couldn't Travel through Gateways:

"It doesn't matter where they went," Rand said absently. His attention was focused on Lews Therin. The madman, the bloody voice in

his head, drew a little deeper on the Power. Let go. man. "Shadowspawn can't survive passing through a gateway."

There are no exceptions made, and Lews Therin certainly knew about Gholam. What's more, RJ even gave us an explanation in a signing:

Question

Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?

Robert Jordan

It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.

Question

So would a Nym have the same problem?

Robert Jordan

Yes.

Shadowspawn being unable to Travel has nothing to do with the Shadow in them. They're artificially made. RJ may even have set this up before, with the Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends not using Gateways to move Chora trees, which are also constructs. And there's no argument to be made that Gholam are also constructs. Brandon decided to change things a little and have the Gholam be some kind of more perfect construct, that could uniquely violate the rules of Traveling.

Now, I think there's a reasonable case to be made here that a new author left with few notes for a large story will have to invent a little to write what he thinks is an effective scene. But as Poobah points out, that was not the impression we were initially given. We were told the plot had been outlined in detail, and Brandon had to do the actual writing. Now we find out there were huge gaps.

But what irritates me more than that is the selective ways Brandon chose to be inventive. He had no issues violating the set rules of the series to make a scene look cooler, in ToM. Yet, he also said that in aMoL, he didn't want to invent new weaves as that may not match with what RJ had in mind, and so we got a lot of channelers to look like a bunch of inept morons in the Last Battle. How do both those stances make sense?

[fionwe1987]

I didn't realize anyone could come across as snobbish because they think they're more knowledgeable about a series of fantasy books, so snobbishly arrogant that they believe they actually know the intimate thoughts and plans of a dead man, but you manage to do it in spades. Congratulations!

You really haven't come across a person in Westeros who thinks they're more knowledgeable about a series? What have you been smoking while you wrote your 7000+ posts?

And I don't claim to know what RJ would have done. But when Brandon himself revealed to us what RJ planned to do in certain places, I'm certainly going to use that to judge the different way Brandon handled it.

[Rhom]

So wait... Jordan didn't leave any notes on how Mat was to handle the Gholam?

[Shryke]

But what irritates me more than that is the selective ways Brandon chose to be inventive. He had no issues violating the set rules of the series to make a scene look cooler, in ToM. Yet, he also said that in aMoL, he didn't want to invent new weaves as that may not match with what RJ had in mind, and so we got a lot of channelers to look like a bunch of inept morons in the Last Battle. How do both those stances make sense?

AMOL itself is full of Sanderson adding his own ... style of channeling to WOT and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[fionwe1987]

So wait... Jordan didn't leave any notes on how Mat was to handle the Gholam?

Clearly not. He probably just indicated that a Gateway will be used to kill it. I don't know, though.

AMOL itself is full of Sanderson adding his own ... style of channeling to WOT and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

There's a Brandon quote saying that he chose to simply expand on existing weaves. And that meant Gateways, and the one doing all the innovation was Androl (and Yukiri, but just barely). It was ludicrous. Aes Sedai can already do terribly destructive things that he simply didn't have them doing. Egwene herself knew all the damane weaves of destruction. That she didn't pass those on to Aes Sedai is beyond idiotic. And he seriously underplayed the strength of her sa'angreal. And he completely forgot about wards. Aes Sedai know of wards that can kill all Shadowspawn that go through. They don't usually use them because those things can act as beacons to the Shadowspawn. But Aes Sedai can invert weaves not, and if they'd laced the battlefield at Merillor with warded pockets, they'd have gotten rid of a huge number of Trollocs. They had an entire week to prepare the battlefield, and didn't take the chance, or even think of it. Its ridiculous.

[Frey Pie]

I dont see why this would make someone so angry. The Gholam didnt come back so the gateway worked anyway correct? So why the big commotion? As far as i could tell the gholam was sentenced to an eternity of falling through nothingness.

So RJ-kill the gholam with a gateway

BS-kill the gholam with a gateway, but in a slightly different way

[BLU-RAY]

The outcome is less the point than the internal consistency/rules/metaphysics of the world.

[fionwe1987]

The outcome is less the point than the internal consistency/rules/metaphysics of the world.

Its not even that. Its the assurance we were given that most of the plotting was done. Except it really wasn't. There certainly wasn't three books worth of stuff...

[Reposado]

I dont see why this would make someone so angry. The Gholam didnt come back so the gateway worked anyway correct? So why the big commotion? As far as i could tell the gholam was sentenced to an eternity of falling through nothingness.

So RJ-kill the gholam with a gateway

BS-kill the gholam with a gateway, but in a slightly different way

right but if you can just kill a gholam with a gateway, regular style, that makes the gholam essentially not dangerous at all. not a problem to have a gholam following you if even a low level channeler can defeat in seconds

[fionwe1987]

right but if you can just kill a gholam with a gateway, regular style, that makes the gholam essentially not dangerous at all. not a problem to have a gholam following you if even a low level channeler can defeat in seconds

And the Gholam will happily just walk into a Gateway?

[Frey Pie]

right but if you can just kill a gholam with a gateway, regular style, that makes the gholam essentially not dangerous at all. not a problem to have a gholam following you if even a low level channeler can defeat in seconds

The gholams unbelievably strong and fast. Most Aes Sedai arent trained warriors. There first idea is throw a ball of fire which is harmless. It took Mats ingenuity to come up with this idea of using the bottomless pit of travelling. Gholams can additionally sense channeling and so will be even warier. A gateway is a weapon against them, but with their speed and strength any Aes Sedai is going to be hard put to defeat one. Remember how many men the gholam killed-trained soldiers, far better then the regular rank and file of other armies. It didnt even break a sweat

I wonder if balefire can touch it?

[Reposado]

And the Gholam will happily just walk into a Gateway?

no, but there are a variety of ways to force it through. if its engaged in combat, put a gateway where it might not be able to avoid stepping, try it a few times. throw up a horizontal gateway exactly where its standing. etc. tons of ways to get it through a regular gateway if that's all you need to kill it

[peterbound]

You really haven't come across a person in Westeros who thinks they're more knowledgeable about a series? What have you been smoking while you wrote your 7000+ posts?

Ha, i think the difference is that George himself has admitted some of the creepy fuckers on this board /do/ know more about the series than he does. He consults with Ran and co when he writes the new books, to make sure the details are right.

You, you're just spitballing.

[fionwe1987]

Ha, i think the difference is that George himself has admitted some of the creepy fuckers on this board /do/ know more about the series than he does. He consults with Ran and co when he writes the new books, to make sure the details are right.

You, you're just spitballing.

While I'm far from claiming to know enough about the series to be consulted while writing it, such WoT fans do exist, and Luckers is one of them. Brandon even wanted to include him as a beta reader.

Me, I know certain aspects of the series very well, others not so much, and I don't have the various interview quotes etc. memorized like some others do.