What makes for a better story, Aegon being real or Aegon being fake?

[Maxpey]

The purose of this thread is not to discuss whether Aegon is real. Rather, it's to discuss what would make for a more compelling story, that he is real or that he is fake.

I believe that Aegon being real would make for a more compelling story, depending upon what happens with his story arc.

For example, I think it would be an interesting twist on the "lost heir returns to claim his rightful place" trope if GRRM were to have Aegon return to Westeros, but instead of claiming his rightful place on the IR as Rhaegar's son he is defeated.

Further, what if GRRM has Jon Snow involved in causing Aegon's downfall? Think about the irony. Aegon, the "lost heir" whom Rhaegar thought was "the song of ice and fire" is defeated, in part because of Jon Snow, Rhaegar's other "lost heir", who also happens to be the true "song of ice and fire."

In addition, I think we can all agree Aegon's defeat would be the ultimate slap in the face for Varys. What if Aegon is defeated in part because he cannot muster enough support in Westeros because not enough people believe that Varys switched babies and that the real Aegon was raised in secret in Essos. All of Varys' carefully laid plans and scheming would fail primarily because he pulled off the switch too well. Aegon was off the grid for so long that people just can't accept that he has truly returned.

Those are just a few reasons why I think Aegon being real would make for a more compelling story. I would love to read what other people think.

I am sorry if this issue has been discussed before. My search function still doesn't work and I don't have the time to go back to manually search for other threads. If there are such threads, I would appreciate it if someone could send me a link to them.

Thanks!

[Mladen]

How do you plan to discuss what`s more compelling story without discussing whether he`s real or not?

The point is, this was set long time ago. Even in CoK, GRRM hinted that we might see Aegon in some form, so when he appeared, it obviously brought the question how did he survived. And one question led to another, one proof led to another, and we finally came to a conclusion - he`s fake. Blackfyre pretender thinking of himself as Targaryen, not even realizing who he really is, for me is quite compelling story. And I doubt we can discuss what would be better story when the board is already set.

[Dr. Pepper]

To me, the thing that makes the most compelling story is the one that makes the most sense across the board. Several character actions wouldn't make sense to me if Aegon were actually son of Rhaegar so I would find him being fake most compelling, even if the story played out like described in the OP. Aegon being real would leave too many unanswered questions and inconsistencies in the plot for me to find it enjoyable.

I do think that we readers will likely never have explicit confirmation on whether or not Aegon is son of Rhaegar or son of Blackfyre, and I find that compelling. It intrigues me how various characters will react to him and how those reactions will be judged. For example, if Dany fights Aegon and kills him, I would be excited to see what sorts of reactions characters would have over the idea that Dany potentially killed her nephew. The label of kinslayer is pretty severe and that sort of thing would greatly affect Dany's arc. Stuff like that intrigues me much more than simply exciting fighting or fulfilling tropes.

[Maxpey]

How do you plan to discuss what`s more compelling story without discussing whether he`s real or not?

The point is, this was set long time ago. Even in CoK, GRRM hinted that we might see Aegon in some form, so when he appeared, it obviously brought the question how did he survived. And one question led to another, one proof led to another, and we finally came to a conclusion - he`s fake. Blackfyre pretender thinking of himself as Targaryen, not even realizing who he really is, for me is quite compelling story. And I doubt we can discuss what would be better story when the board is already set.

I want to get past the scrums about whether he is real or not and find out what people think would make for a more compelling story.

I realize that it may be pointless if, as most people suspect, he turns out to be fake.

But I thought it would be fun to consider the implications for the story either way.

[andrew_]

I think him being real makes more sense if GRRM wants to keep the conflict in Westeros fresh. I mean whats better than 1 targ? 2 targs!

[Fistful o' Dragons]

To me, the thing that makes the most compelling story is the one that makes the most sense across the board. Several character actions wouldn't make sense to me if Aegon were actually son of Rhaegar so I would find him being fake most compelling, even if the story played out like described in the OP. Aegon being real would leave too many unanswered questions and inconsistencies in the plot for me to find it enjoyable.

I do think that we readers will likely never have explicit confirmation on whether or not Aegon is son of Rhaegar or son of Blackfyre, and I find that compelling. It intrigues me how various characters will react to him and how those reactions will be judged. For example, if Dany fights Aegon and kills him, I would be excited to see what sorts of reactions characters would have over the idea that Dany potentially killed her nephew. The label of kinslayer is pretty severe and that sort of thing would greatly affect Dany's arc. Stuff like that intrigues me much more than simply exciting fighting or fulfilling tropes.

:agree:

[thecryptile]

Either way is interesting- true prince switched at birth? Blackfyre pretender? both have ample scope for drama.

I'm not sure it even matters, from a plot perspective, if he is "real" or not.

[mrunderhill]

How do you plan to discuss what`s more compelling story without discussing whether he`s real or not?

The point is, this was set long time ago. Even in CoK, GRRM hinted that we might see Aegon in some form, so when he appeared, it obviously brought the question how did he survived. And one question led to another, one proof led to another, and we finally came to a conclusion - he`s fake. Blackfyre pretender thinking of himself as Targaryen, not even realizing who he really is, for me is quite compelling story. And I doubt we can discuss what would be better story when the board is already set.

I think what is more important is whether the characters believe he is real or not. Dorne's, Selmy's and Dany's reactions are the ones that count the most. I believe the better story is if they Dany believes him to be real, but Dorne believes him to be fake. This way the characters have a real conflict. If Dorne believe he is real then there is no conflict and their decision should obviously be to support him. There is no way the Dornish would tolerate anything else. If he is fake then Dany is honour bound to defeat him for the sake of her brother's honour and her crown.

Now if Dorne believe him to be fake it raises the question of will they support a fake Aegon to get revenge? If Dany believes him to be real will she bend the knee to the man with the better claim?

[Mladen]

I want to get past the scrums about whether he is real or not and find out what people think would make for a more compelling story.

I realize that it may be pointless if, as most people suspect, he turns out to be fake.

But I thought it would be fun to consider the implications for the story either way.

I understand that you all have dilemma about it, but you have Blackfyre knot in ASOIAF that needs to be unravelled. When so many times, black dragons are mentioned, you come to understanding you need to know the point of that story. And, in this moment, the key to unravel Blackfyre story is YG. He is Alexander`s sword to Blackfyre Gordian knot.

I think what is more important is whether the characters believe he is real or not. Dorne's, Selmy's and Dany's reactions are the ones that count the most. I believe the better story is if they Dany believes him to be real, but Dorne believes him to be fake. This way the characters have a real conflict. If Dorne believe he is real then there is no conflict and their decision should obviously be to support him. There is no way the Dornish would tolerate anything else. If he is fake then Dany is honour bound to defeat him for the sake of her brother's honour and her crown.

Now if Dorne believe him to be fake it raises the question of will they support a fake Aegon to get revenge? If Dany believes him to be real will she bend the knee to the man with the better claim?

Dany will believe that he is fake, as everyone around her will - Tyrion, Selmy, Victarion etc. Jon Connington believes he is real deal, I belive Arianne and Dorne will believe the same. As for the others, black or red, a dragon is a dragon.

[mrunderhill]

Dany will believe that he is fake, as everyone around her will - Tyrion, Selmy, Victarion etc. Jon Connington believes he is real deal, I belive Arianne and Dorne will believe the same. As for the others, black or red, a dragon is a dragon.

This may turn out to be a case of wishful thinking then. I think Doran might be able to see something in Aegon if he was really his sister's son. I also don't think Dany can wage war against Aegon without meeting him first.

[Sullen]

Fake, but never revealed as such, only hinted at.

[Prince of the North]

Yeah, it really doesn't matter if Aegon is "real" or "fake". It only matters what people believe (especially the nobles because they have the armies ;) ). I think that's what Martin is trying to show us (remember Varys' riddle). Also, I believe Aegon is fake but I'm not really invested in that. Either way I have faith that Martin will continue to give us a great story!

[Mladen]

This may turn out to be a case of wishful thinking then. I think Doran might be able to see something in Aegon if he was really his sister's son. I also don't think Dany can wage war against Aegon without meeting him first.

With half a dozen warnings, visions etc... How many times Dany heard abouit mummer`s dragon? As for Doran, it`s all up to Arianne. He can`t move from Sunspear, so Arianne will have to determine if he is right or fake. And, since she didn`t know Elia, and his story, I imagine he will have no problem convincing her.

[Nictarion]

I think it would be better writing if he's fake. We already have one secret Targaryen in the story.

[Prince of the North]

I think it would be better writing if he's fake. We already have one secret Targaryen in the story.

If fAegon, then it would make R+L=J (if it's true and I believe it is ;) ) that much more important as well. Especially because (in my opinion) Jon's ass will never touch the Iron Throne.

[Maxpey]

Dany will believe that he is fake, as everyone around her will - Tyrion, Selmy, Victarion etc. Jon Connington believes he is real deal, I belive Arianne and Dorne will believe the same. As for the others, black or red, a dragon is a dragon.

I agree with your predictions. The question I have is how will the rest of Westeros react? Do they remain in their respective camps (Stannis v. Lannister/Tyrell)?

[Mladen]

I agree with your predictions. The question I have is how will the rest of Westeros react? Do they remain in their respective camps (Stannis v. Lannister/Tyrell)?

It all depends. Some Tyrell bannermen will abandon Tyrells, but I doubt Tyrells will break alliance with Lannisters. As for Stannis, poor man, after Northern lords are done with GNC he will have no other option but to recognize Jon as his King. That or to die.

[Maxpey]

It all depends. Some Tyrell bannermen will abandon Tyrells, but I doubt Tyrells will break alliance with Lannisters. As for Stannis, poor man, after Northern lords are done with GNC he will have no other option but to recognize Jon as his King. That or to die.

Should make for an interesting time in Westeros.

[mrunderhill]

It all depends. Some Tyrell bannermen will abandon Tyrells, but I doubt Tyrells will break alliance with Lannisters. As for Stannis, poor man, after Northern lords are done with GNC he will have no other option but to recognize Jon as his King. That or to die.

Stannis would never recognise anyone as king unless it was proven to him beyond doubt that one of Cersei's children was legitimate. He would rather die.

I also think you are dismissing Dany's desire for family and Varys' desire to have Aegon recognised by the sole remaining Targaryen. Dany would want to believe that her brother's heir survived on a personal level. To simply dismiss the claim without ever attempting to verify the truth would make her look very bad.

[The Boar of Gore]

There's a parallel in history for this with James II's son who became 'the Old Pretender'. A rumour was spread around that the baby son was not really the king's but was smuggled into the bedchamber in a ... chamber pot, I think. To me it seems plausible that he was the king's real son, but what mattered was whether people believed he was (they didn't, except for Stuart loyalists in Scotland). In other words, the important question was whose interests were served by believing one thing or the other.

For ASOIAF purposes, he can't be real or his claim will take precedence over Dany's, and for Dany to turn out not to be the true dragon at this point would ruin her story arc. So he's the mummer's dragon. It is known.