What is the Rhaegar Ruby Theory?

[~DarkHorse~]

My friend, those rubies that flew from Rhaegar's chest? Those were rubies. They weren't symbols for Targaryen blood, they were the actual rubies.

Yeah, I think they knew they were actual Rubies but they could have also symbolised the 7 Targaryen's and Jon still needing to be discovered. It's much like the Dragon must have three heads thing and symbolism in GOT when the dead direwolf and Stag is found (Ned and Robert's death). GRRM loves symbolism/foreshadowing and he's very clever at hiding it within the story.

[Longspear Ryk]

Little do they know theyv just recieved the 7th ruby. Sandor clegane, guy's a gem

[mindchap]

Little do they know theyv just recieved the 7th ruby. Sandor clegane, guy's a gem

That or it washes up the same day they get a letter asking him to come to KL to fight Robert Strong. :cool4:

[Yukle]

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

1. Rhaegar
   
   
2. Viserys
   
   
3. Daenerys
   
   
4. Rhaenys
   
   
5. Aegon
   
   
6. Rhaego
   

The seventh is Jon Snow.

My head just exploded.

I never even realised, because it was so obvious, that there have been seven descendants of Aerys II and Rhaella.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Rubies are mentioned in the story in connection with:

Rhaegar Targaryen

blood

fire

Lannisters

wealth

The rubies that "flew like blood" from the dying Prince's chest were more than a simple metaphor of rubies as blood. In ASoS, Jorah tells Dany

His blood swirled downriver with the rubies from his breastplate,

Combined with the river (representing time) we get the more fleshed out metaphor of a blood legacy flowing into the future from Rhaegar.

The brothers on the Quiet Isle waiting for the seventh ruby furthers this metaphor, they are both literally downstream from the Ruby Ford and metaphorically down the time stream. They await the coming of the seventh scion of the line of A+R, not because there were literally seven rubies but because there is powerful symbolism tied to the number seven.

It is Tywin Lannister himself who gives us the "fire" aspect, in ASoS

"Rubies," Lord Tywin said "garnets lack the fire."

Rubies= Fire+Blood

In cultural symbolism, rubies have been associated with the sun (fire) and with being the "blood of the earth" They represent passion and longevity. In this case I suggest they represent the blood heritage of the family they are associated with.

What to make of the Lannister connection? I'm not a huge fan of Lannisters being secret Targs, but it's quite true that outside of Rhaegar, Fire + Blood, rubies are mentioned most often in connection to Lannisters. Worth mentioning at any rate, but not worth derailing this thread over ;)

[J. Stargaryen]

Rubies are mentioned in the story in connection with:
Rhaegar Targaryen
blood
fire
Lannisters
wealth

The rubies that "flew like blood" from the dying Prince's chest were more than a simple metaphor of rubies as blood. In ASoS, Jorah tells Dany


Combined with the river (representing time) we get the more fleshed out metaphor of a blood legacy flowing into the future from Rhaegar.
The brothers on the Quiet Isle waiting for the seventh ruby furthers this metaphor, they are both literally downstream from the Ruby Ford and metaphorically down the time stream. They await the coming of the seventh scion of the line of A+R, not because there were literally seven rubies but because there is powerful symbolism tied to the number seven.

It is Tywin Lannister himself who gives us the "fire" aspect, in ASoS


Rubies= Fire+Blood
In cultural symbolism, rubies have been associated with the sun (fire) and with being the "blood of the earth" They represent passion and longevity. In this case I suggest they represent the blood heritage of the family they are associated with.

What to make of the Lannister connection? I'm not a huge fan of Lannisters being secret Targs, but it's quite true that outside of Rhaegar, Fire + Blood, rubies are mentioned most often in connection to Lannisters. Worth mentioning at any rate, but not worth derailing this thread over ;)

AGoT, Eddard I:

The king touched her cheek, his fingers brushing across the rough stone as gently as if it were living flesh. “I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her.”
“You did,” Ned reminded him. “Only once,” Robert said bitterly. They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert’s hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor.

There is also that. :)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

J. Stargaryen and Flig explained it best. No one is saying that there are only seven, just that six have been found thus far and the Quiet Isle brothers are waiting for the seventh ... which they are. There could've been a thousand rubies, but having six in hand, they are waiting on the seventh. And as J. Stargaryen very cleanly explained, thematically, the first six can refer to the "known" products Aerys and Rhaella's line and the "missing" seventh one is Jon — and as the seventh, the most "significant."

My friend, those rubies that flew from Rhaegar's chest? Those were rubies. They weren't symbols for Targaryen blood, they were the actual rubies.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, dear.

[A Crow Come Over]

Rhaegar Targaryen is dead.

Catelyn Stark is dead too, doesn't stop her from hanging Freys. (This doesnt mean I think UnRhaegar is walking around)

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

AGoT, Eddard I:

There is also that. :)

Missed that one. Thanks! :)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

1. Rhaegar
   
   
2. Viserys
   
   
3. Daenerys
   
   
4. Rhaenys
   
   
5. Aegon
   
   
6. Rhaego
   

The seventh is Jon Snow.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: unbelievable! This post is one of the best I've read in here.

[mrlukeduke]

Don't know why there's so much beef about the specific number of rubies. I actually think the symbolism is more loose and vague (as GRRM generally tends to be), like so:

Let's assume Rhaegar had hundreds of rubies on his breastplate. OK? Good.

So, the red gems represent all his family, his children and children's children that might be to come, etc. Ruby dragon = dragon's blood generally speaking. When Bob smashed them, he was smashing Rhaegar's line.

It is still significant however (i.e. written intentionally by a detail master) that six were found. It doesn't matter one shitting iota if they find 1 more, 18 more, or 120 more later on.

The six retrieved represent the known Targaryens of his lineage. Jon is the unknown one. So he's still "hidden" like the ruby is.

That's what I take from it anyway. It's not a "theory", it's just allegory and symbolism. The number of rubies could change if, say, Dani and Jon had kids. Then maybe another gem turns up later. (I doubt it, but you take my point).

[NiggardGuy]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

1. Rhaegar
   
   
2. Viserys
   
   
3. Daenerys
   
   
4. Rhaenys
   
   
5. Aegon
   
   
6. Rhaego
   

The seventh is Jon Snow.

Wow. I never put the dots together with this one. Nicely done!

[J. Stargaryen]

Wow. I never put the dots together with this one. Nicely done!

Thanks. A lot of us share the credit on this one; Lady Gwyn*, FrozenFire3. Sorry if I'm forgetting anyone. A one time poster named MarinaC was the one who pieced together that the six rubies = the six known Targaryens from the line of A&R. My own contribution was that the rubies=blood=Rhaegar's family. I also mentioned something about Jon being the seventh, which was inspired by some separate analysis of the burning of the Seven on Dragonstone by a user named coil. He/She posited that the Stranger represented Jon due to the burnt hand, iirc. The Stranger being the seventh (or final) face of the seven faced god. I don't even know if that is a good connection itself, but it helped lead us to a good conclusion.

The whole discussion starts here, and carries on into v.43 of the R+L=J thread. I don't mind saying that I think it was maybe the best spontaneous group effort on these forums that I am aware of. Emphasis on the that I am aware of part.

*Lady Gwyn's analysis showing that rubies=fire, combined with my own rubies=(Targaryen) blood, means that rubies symbolically represent Fire and Blood. How awesome is that? Gotta love GRRM.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

Double post - sorry!

[the_one_who_was_promised]

Don't know why there's so much beef about the specific number of rubies. I actually think the symbolism is more loose and vague (as GRRM generally tends to be), like so:

Let's assume Rhaegar had hundreds of rubies on his breastplate. OK? Good.

So, the red gems represent all his family, his children and children's children that might be to come, etc. Ruby dragon = dragon's blood generally speaking. When Bob smashed them, he was smashing Rhaegar's line.

It is still significant however (i.e. written intentionally by a detail master) that six were found. It doesn't matter one shitting iota if they find 1 more, 18 more, or 120 more later on.

The six retrieved represent the known Targaryens of his lineage. Jon is the unknown one. So he's still "hidden" like the ruby is.

That's what I take from it anyway. It's not a "theory", it's just allegory and symbolism. The number of rubies could change if, say, Dani and Jon had kids. Then maybe another gem turns up later. (I doubt it, but you take my point).

Exactly - this is how I interpret it too. Can't really see how it can be any more complex than that.

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

1. Rhaegar
   
   
2. Viserys
   
   
3. Daenerys
   
   
4. Rhaenys
   
   
5. Aegon
   
   
6. Rhaego
   

The seventh is Jon Snow.

I gotta hand it to you - this is an awesome post. Well done! :)

[Lord Damian]

Apparently rubies seem to be a very, very precious gem in Westeros.

[Ser Underline]

Well even if there were lets say 32 rubies. The guys on the Quiet Isle have -only- found 6 and are waiting for the seventh. Wait as to get a sign from the Divine Seven? Or a simple foreshadowing game play by GRRM. There were certainly more than 7 rubies, but he emphasizes that they're waiting for the 7th. (as we all are)

[Red R'hollr]

Can you really count Rheago? Little guy didnt even make it out the womb

[RoamingRonin]

Can you really count Rheago? Little guy didnt even make it out the womb

He was still-born. It's quite a stretch to include him but it is a nice idea, I guess.

[The Dragon Queen]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

1. Rhaegar
   
   
2. Viserys
   
   
3. Daenerys
   
   
4. Rhaenys
   
   
5. Aegon
   
   
6. Rhaego
   

The seventh is Jon Snow.

i like this :drunk: