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Is Cersei really crazy?


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#1 Dire-Lion

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

I don’t think that Cersei loses her mind until after the PW. I believe that watching her oldest son die in her arms combined with Maggie’s prophecy causes her to lose sense of reality. Her conversation with Jaime in A Game of Thrones is the closest thing we get to seeing her viewpoint until Feast. In it she describes her fears about Ned being named hand and what it means. She thinks that Ned is moving against her, and that he is only loyal to Robert not the crown. Cersei also fears Robert’s anger knowing that he will actually listen to Ned and that Robert will probably execute her and Jaime as soon as he hears accusations even if there is no proof. She also is wary of Lysa’s intentions by leaving King’s Landing with her son, which she sees as a move to retain what little power Lysa has.


Although Cersei is claiming that she has enemies all around her, which seems paranoid, she is for the most part correct. Ned is going to King’s Landing to investigate Lysa’s claims, which a move against the Lannisters. Robert does listen to Ned above all other people, and his reaction to news of Dany’s pregnancy shows that it is in character for him to react violently in anger. Lysa’s moves while not necessarily against the Lannisters were done to keep her power. So yes she is being paranoid by assuming that everyone is acting against her, but in King’s Landing that is something prudent to do. Besides how crazy are you if everything you say is true?

#2 Littlefingers In The Air

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:47 PM

Yes, she is crazy.

#3 Mad Monkey

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:50 PM

I agree that losing her son probably broke something in her. Think of it as a slow motion rendition of Catelyn Stark's fate while watching her 'last' son being butchered in front of her at the Red Wedding. There's only so much that one person can take and unlike Catelyn Cersei was never all that stable.

#4 Apple Martini

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

The thing about Cersei's paranoia is that it's a giant loop. Yes, she's correct that people are moving against her, because she has given them a reason to. She did have her brother's kids and pass them off as Robert's. She did try to get Robert to send Robin Arryn to Casterly Rock so he'd be a hostage if shit hit the fan. Later on people are moving against her because she's shown herself to be a cruel, petty, ineffective ruler.

She might not be "crazy" crazy until after Joffrey dies, but she has shown capacity for evil from a pretty young age — physically abusing her infant brother and murdering her best friend. Let's not pretend like she was some innocent put-upon maid until Ned and Lysa came along.

Edited by Apple Martini, 05 September 2013 - 09:57 PM.


#5 thecryptile

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:54 PM

She was always a few cards short of a full deck.

#6 the Sword of the Prevening

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:55 PM

Joffrey and Tywin's deaths have certainly left her shaken. She becomes even more over protective of the only child she has with her, Tommen. She also realizes house Lannister rests on her shoulders with Jaime out in the fields and Tyrion in exile in Essos. She is crazy, but I think her real problem is she overestimates herself. She thinks she is Tywin and tries to plot and ploy her way to the top. She is not that person, and everything she does turns around and bites her in the behind.

#7 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:56 PM

The thing about Cersei's paranoia is that it's a giant loop. Yes, she's correct that people are moving against her, because she has given them a reason to. She did have her brother's kids and pass them off as Robert's. She did try to get Robert to send Robin Arryn to Casterly Rock so they'd be a hostage if shit hit the fan. Later on people are moving against her because she's shown herself to be a cruel, petty, ineffective ruler.

She might not be "crazy" crazy until after Joffrey dies, but she has shown capacity for evil from a pretty young age — physically abusing her infant brother and murdering her best friend. Let's not pretend like she was some innocent put-upon maid until Ned and Lysa came along.


No. Cersei isn't intentionally evil. All of her actions are meant to protect her children.

Really, we can blame all of her problems on Robert. Being a victim totally justifies Cersei being a victimizer herself.

So really, Robert is the cause for everything.

#8 Apple Martini

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:59 PM

No. Cersei isn't intentionally evil. All of her actions are meant to protect her children.

Really, we can blame all of her problems on Robert. Being a victim totally justifies Cersei being a victimizer herself.

So really, Robert is the cause for everything.


I'd be more confident that you were being sarcastic if I hadn't seen this same argument used before earnestly.

#9 Mad Monkey

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:03 PM

The thing about Cersei's paranoia is that it's a giant loop. Yes, she's correct that people are moving against her, because she has given them a reason to. She did have her brother's kids and pass them off as Robert's. She did try to get Robert to send Robin Arryn to Casterly Rock so he'd be a hostage if shit hit the fan. Later on people are moving against her because she's shown herself to be a cruel, petty, ineffective ruler.

She might not be "crazy" crazy until after Joffrey dies, but she has shown capacity for evil from a pretty young age — physically abusing her infant brother and murdering her best friend. Let's not pretend like she was some innocent put-upon maid until Ned and Lysa came along.


That's true, but she went from being vindictive and spiteful to being Aerys Targaryen after Joffrey died. Cersei was always a bad person, but she could sort of keep it together before that. In book 2 (?) she understood that pushing Bran out of the window was somewhat unnecessary and he could have been intimidated into silence. She understood that beheading Ned Stark was a mistake. She was able to work with Tyrion at least temporarily for the purposes of defending the city and rescuing Jaime. She was never a good person but she could function in day-to-day society.more or less like an ordinary person. Once Joffrey died, she basically lost her mind.

#10 BanzaiZ

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:05 PM

Cersei's probably always been a few steps short of unhinged, and after the PW, I think the door flew completely off. But the propensity was always there, and her flashes of cruelty have always been there.

#11 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:07 PM

That's true, but she went from being vindictive and spiteful to being Aerys Targaryen after Joffrey died. Cersei was always a bad person, but she could sort of keep it together before that. In book 2 (?) she understood that pushing Bran out of the window was somewhat unnecessary and he could have been intimidated into silence. She understood that beheading Ned Stark was a mistake. She was able to work with Tyrion at least temporarily for the purposes of defending the city and rescuing Jaime. She was never a good person but she could function in day-to-day society.more or less like an ordinary person. Once Joffrey died, she basically lost her mind.


But she wanted Bran dead at the time. Really, she wouldn't have suggested that killing Bran was a bad idea if he were dead, because she would have nothing to worry about.

Its like Cersei wanting Jaime gone for half of AFFC, but then begging for him to come back and save her and die in the process. Cersei is a very fickle person.

#12 WeirwoodTreeHugger

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:10 PM

She's that person whowhen you first meet her, you think she's totally normal. Then she starts telling you that the world is going to end next month and the government is using cell phone towers for mind control. The sort of person who calls in to Coast to Coast A.M.

Not schizophrenic. Functional. But severely disturbed.

Edited for blathering and typos

Edited by WeirwoodTreeHugger, 05 September 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#13 Mad Monkey

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:23 PM

But she wanted Bran dead at the time. Really, she wouldn't have suggested that killing Bran was a bad idea if he were dead, because she would have nothing to worry about.


Well, yeah, but my point was that Cersei was willing to consider non-murderous solutions to her problems. Obviously if Bran had died then no harm no foul (ugh) but she was willing to consider that there was an easier and cleverer way to manage the situation.

#14 SeanF

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:27 PM

The thing about Cersei's paranoia is that it's a giant loop. Yes, she's correct that people are moving against her, because she has given them a reason to. She did have her brother's kids and pass them off as Robert's. She did try to get Robert to send Robin Arryn to Casterly Rock so he'd be a hostage if shit hit the fan. Later on people are moving against her because she's shown herself to be a cruel, petty, ineffective ruler.

She might not be "crazy" crazy until after Joffrey dies, but she has shown capacity for evil from a pretty young age — physically abusing her infant brother and murdering her best friend. Let's not pretend like she was some innocent put-upon maid until Ned and Lysa came along.


Some of her paranoia is justified. Margaery Tyrell is an enemy - and not just because of Cersei's actions (she was either Joffrey's poisoner, or at any rate, a party to the plot to poison Joffrey). The manner in which she deals with the threat from Margaery obviously backfires disastrously.

#15 Apple Martini

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:34 PM

Some of her paranoia is justified. Margaery Tyrell is an enemy - and not just because of Cersei's actions (she was either Joffrey's poisoner, or at any rate, a party to the plot to poison Joffrey). The manner in which she deals with the threat from Margaery obviously backfires disastrously.


And why did the Tyrells poison Joffrey? Because he was volatile, unstable and off his leash. Cersei had no control over him and didn't even try to restrain him until it was too late.

#16 Fire Eater

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:36 PM

The thing about Cersei's paranoia is that it's a giant loop. Yes, she's correct that people are moving against her, because she has given them a reason to. She did have her brother's kids and pass them off as Robert's. She did try to get Robert to send Robin Arryn to Casterly Rock so he'd be a hostage if shit hit the fan. Later on people are moving against her because she's shown herself to be a cruel, petty, ineffective ruler.

She might not be "crazy" crazy until after Joffrey dies, but she has shown capacity for evil from a pretty young age — physically abusing her infant brother and murdering her best friend. Let's not pretend like she was some innocent put-upon maid until Ned and Lysa came along.


Very true, she has enemies because she created them. On top of that she never takes responsibility for any of her actions, it is always someone else's fault. Cersei has a bit of Lady Macbeth to her character, who went mad.

Some of her paranoia is justified. Margaery Tyrell is an enemy - and not just because of Cersei's actions (she was either Joffrey's poisoner, or at any rate, a party to the plot to poison Joffrey). The manner in which she deals with the threat from Margaery obviously backfires disastrously.


It's possible Margaery didn't know, Olenna could possibly not have told her for the same reason Ned never told Cat the truth about Jon, if Margaery didn't know than she was safe if Olenna was found out or caught.

Edited by Fire Eater, 05 September 2013 - 10:37 PM.


#17 Dire-Lion

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:51 PM

The thing about Cersei's paranoia is that it's a giant loop. Yes, she's correct that people are moving against her, because she has given them a reason to. She did have her brother's kids and pass them off as Robert's. She did try to get Robert to send Robin Arryn to Casterly Rock so he'd be a hostage if shit hit the fan. Later on people are moving against her because she's shown herself to be a cruel, petty, ineffective ruler.

She might not be "crazy" crazy until after Joffrey dies, but she has shown capacity for evil from a pretty young age — physically abusing her infant brother and murdering her best friend. Let's not pretend like she was some innocent put-upon maid until Ned and Lysa came along.

What does creating enemies have to do with being paranoid? I'm not trying to absolve her of anything just trying to prove that she was not the delusional person of feast until later. She is able to accurately define who is her enemy and what their current actions mean. No where in the conversation does she say that she has enemies for no reason. Of course she probably thought that both Arryns and Starks disliked her before she ever set foot in KL but for good reason. I don't think there was any love for the Lannister name after the sack, and murders of Aerys, Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys.

#18 SeanF

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:51 PM

Very true, she has enemies because she created them. On top of that she never takes responsibility for any of her actions, it is always someone else's fault. Cersei has a bit of Lady Macbeth to her character, who went mad.


It's possible Margaery didn't know, Olenna could possibly not have told her for the same reason Ned never told Cat the truth about Jon, if Margaery didn't know than she was safe if Olenna was found out or caught.


She had to know. Olenna would never put Margaery in a position where she might drink poisoned wine by accident.

#19 SeanF

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:53 PM

And why did the Tyrells poison Joffrey? Because he was volatile, unstable and off his leash. Cersei had no control over him and didn't even try to restrain him until it was too late.


True, but it doesn't change the fact that Cersei is right to view them as enemies.

#20 danm_999

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:03 PM

What does creating enemies have to do with being paranoid? I'm not trying to absolve her of anything just trying to prove that she was not the delusional person of feast until later.


She was always the delusional paranoid person who was the architect of her own misery. When she receives the prophecy from Maggy the Frog, she murders Melara Heatherspoon in the belief if no one knows of the prophecy, it won't come true. But what she actually has done is made the prophecy come true by killing Melara.

The pattern by where Cersei creates her own enemies and misfortune through her own actions is established well before the events of Feast.