LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 There are several reasons why he could break his vows 1) When two parts of the NW´s oath are in conflict, which one carries more weight? One could break a part of the oath in order to uphold other parts. The main issue of the vows of the NW is protecting the realms of men. If the only way to do so, against an invasion of the Others would be to join the north under his rule (to fight this invasion), anyone would take the northern crown.That is just being pragmatic. 2) Are we sure Jon would never break his vows? he did get some with Ygritte (which was technically breaking the spirit of the vows). He also decided to take his free folk army to the south to rescue his sister. And he almost abandoned the watch on several occasions. Including Stannis offer to take Winterfell, which he only rejected for religious reasons (refusal to burn Winterfell´s godwoods) 3) Death might free him as a technicality. 4) The NW might free him, in exchange for something else (As Robb planned to do) 5) Does the NW even exist as an institution after the assassination attempt? They might be destroyed by the wildlings 6) If he comes back to life, would he still have the same personality? 7) What about an spiritual experience (induced by Bran or bloodraven) which makes him feel like the gods want him to leave the NW to fulfill a greater destiny.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeygigs Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Ultimately, Jon will get out of his vows however GRRM wants him to, considering he's still alive. That said, Im pretty sure the Watch is going to be destroyed in the next book. The Queen's men will join in, the Wildlings and Giants will go nuts, the Nights Watch at Castle Black will be divided, the Wall will fall, and the Others will attack...The Night's Watch, as an organization, will simply be unable to recover. Jon, if he lives, will be free from his vows by virtue of the fact that no organization will exist to be faithful to, and while he will stay true to the philosophy, I don't see him remaining celibate, or rejecting Robb's Will (if Rickon is not found in time, and assuming it resurfaces at all) in reverence to a dead organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 That is really the only way it should happen.It shouldn't happen at all. Jon should not be King he should end with the wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 It shouldn't happen at all. Jon should not be King he should end with the wall That doesn't make sence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 That doesn't make sence.The post that I was quoting was saying that the only way Jon should become King was if the Wall was destroyed. I was saying that Jon shouldn't become King either way that when the wall was destroyed Jon should go out with it because I don't want him to be King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The post that I was quoting was saying that the only way Jon should become King was if the Wall was destroyed. I was saying that Jon shouldn't become King either way that when the wall was destroyed Jon should go out with it because I don't want him to be King. I know the quote you quoted because Nictarion quoted my quote. But it doesn't make sence. It's another think that you don't want Jon as a King and another to say that he sould end with the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I can see him becoming KotN the way things are heading but not at the end of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I know the quote you quoted because Nictarion quoted my quote. But it doesn't make sence. It's another think that you don't want Jon as a King and another to say that he sould end with the Wall. I'm saying he should end with the wall because that's how I want his story to end. I want the wall to fall at the end when the Others are destroyed and Jon to die also it's what I want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'm saying he should end with the wall because that's how I want his story to end. I want the wall to fall at the end when the Others are destroyed and Jon to die also it's what I want I see. I just hadn't understand what "end with the Wall" meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Any scenario that gets Jon out of the Night's Watch while it still exists as an institution is dishonorable "lawyering", going against the spirit of the Vow even if there's a "legal loophole" to be found due to a situation (such as coming back from death) that it simply wasn't written to accommodate. The spirit of the Vow - which is what an honorable man will stick to - is that once said, you serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougef Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 An interesting dilemma would be to face a "choice" like his "father", Ned, honor or doing the "right" thing. Honor to the NW or saving the world. It would be powerful stuff to force him to renege his, clearly, deeply held vow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 An interesting dilemma would be to face a "choice" like his "father", Ned, honor or doing the "right" thing. Honor to the NW or saving the world. It would be powerful stuff to force him to renege his, clearly, deeply held vow. Indeed, and I'd be okay with that, I just don't like it when people try to "excuse" the breaking of a vow by (imo) deliberately mis-interpreting the words of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addam of Hull Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 An interesting dilemma would be to face a "choice" like his "father", Ned, honor or doing the "right" thing. Honor to the NW or saving the world. It would be powerful stuff to force him to renege his, clearly, deeply held vow. Jon doesn't particularly care about honor, though, at least not in the same way that Ned did. Qhorin saw to that. Most of Jon's dedication to his vows is based around doing what is necessary for the protection of the Realm against the Others. His goal is to fulfill the Watch's purpose which is why he chooses to garrison the Wall with men and women who haven't said the words, despite the tradition being that only the Sworn Brothers of the Watch man the Wall. I don't think it would be much of a choice for him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Ah, but is honor what others think of you, or that you yourself know that you're fulfilling your duty to the best of your ability, traditions and nay-sayers be damned? I agree that Jon isn't too concerned what others think of him (generally a good thing, though it can go too far, see: Bowen Marsh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 When eternal debates surface like is Jon dead or not dead, Night's Watch or North King, perhaps we should settle it with a modern trial by combat? Some kind of on-camera internet challenge, such as a minute-to-win-it physical contest that pits each poster's motor skills against one another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 When eternal debates surface like is Jon dead or not dead, Night's Watch or North King, perhaps we should settle it with a modern trial by combat? Some kind of on-camera internet challenge, such as a minute-to-win-it physical contest that pits each poster's motor skills against one another? Ha. People get personal here quickly, to my deep annoyance. Don't go on giving them ideas. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickeen Baratheon Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Does this mean, if they drown any memeber of the NW then bring them back, Iron Born style, they are removed from their vow? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan64Destiny Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Does this mean, if they drown any memeber of the NW then bring them back, Iron Born style, they are removed from their vow? :) ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougef Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Does this mean, if they drown any memeber of the NW then bring them back, Iron Born style, they are removed from their vow? :) You won the internet for today. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tf13 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I like the idea that Jon gets out of his vows, but still fights to protect the realm from the Others as Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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