Maud Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I mean, no one wanted lyanna dead, nor Jon. Did Rhaegar had some plans for Lyanna in case he died? And Why isn't she allowed to be with her family? Ned's companions, the KG, none of them had to die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well if Aegon was killed (and Rhaegar and Lyanna had married) Jon would be the next in line to the throne so would be killed like Aegon and Rhaella. Some people, including me, don't think Rhaegar was the glimmering model of perfection he's been said by some to be and that he was obsessed with TPTWP prophecy, he could think that if anyone took Lyanna and Jon away it mess it all up. The KG were following Rhaegar's orders protecting a member of the royal family so they couldn't back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 This is better off being posted in the R+L pinned topic. One explanation is that the KG were fulfilling their primary duty - protect the king. Suggesting, Jon is legitimate and thus the Targaryen heir to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Oh, the irony of ASoIaF! A bastard (Joffrey) passed off as the true king, and the true king (Jon) passed off as a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 And Martin even plays with that irony in the very first Jon chapter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musashisamurai Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I think what he means is this:Ned would not have killed Lyanna, his sister, or Jon, his nephew.His companions would have followed his wishes.Why then did the KG and the northmen fight? Neither wants to hurt Lyanna and Jon, and I bet Ned would have protected his sister-hidden her at Winterfell, Greywater Watch, or with the Northern Mountain Clans, or even sent her to Essos, and the KG could have stayed with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanless Mace Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Oh come on, they were protecting him from certain death. How hard is that to grasp? The dude would be the target of every wannabe king, and as a babe with no older relative alive, his "rule" would no doubt be pretty short lived. Better to raise him to adulthood and let him earn his birthright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 But even Lyanna wasn't sure Ned wouldn't harm the child. She was afraid until he promised. His allies had killed the child's half-siblings only a few weeks before, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addam of Hull Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I think what he means is this:Ned would not have killed Lyanna, his sister, or Jon, his nephew.His companions would have followed his wishes.Why then did the KG and the northmen fight? Neither wants to hurt Lyanna and Jon, and I bet Ned would have protected his sister-hidden her at Winterfell, Greywater Watch, or with the Northern Mountain Clans, or even sent her to Essos, and the KG could have stayed with themLikely because, despite being her sister, Ned was also one of the primary instigators in the rebellion and a traitor to the crown as a result. You and I know that Ned wouldn't harm Jon, but Ser Gerold Hightower, Ser Arthur Dayne, and Ser Oswell Whent don't know that for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor Swyft Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The Kingsguard had absolutely no way to know that Ned wouldn't kill Jon. The son or daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen? You mean the dynasty that Ned just helped eradicate? It would have been foolish of them to think baby Jon would be spared. Robert certainly wouldn't have spared them, and Ned is Robert's right hand man. Sure it's possible Ned would want to spare his sister's child, but obviously the Kingsguard can't just assume the best case scenario, they aren't idiots. A child that Ned believes to be the result of his sister being raped? He just as easily could have wanted it dead. The kingsguard just doesn't know what they'll do, so they had every good reason to protect Jon and Lyanna with their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rystine Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I think what he means is this:Ned would not have killed Lyanna, his sister, or Jon, his nephew.His companions would have followed his wishes.Why then did the KG and the northmen fight? Neither wants to hurt Lyanna and Jon, and I bet Ned would have protected his sister-hidden her at Winterfell, Greywater Watch, or with the Northern Mountain Clans, or even sent her to Essos, and the KG could have stayed with themThe KG didn't know what Ned and his companions would do. They're most likely unaware of the falling out between Ned and Robert because of the murder of Rhaenys and Aegon. All the KG know is that Ned and all his companions were in KL around the time of the sack and the murders and here they are continuing to fight for Robert.Also, remember even Lyanna was unsure of what Ned would do. She feared what Ned might do until he made her the promise. So even Ned's own sister at least suspected Ned might kill Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As the Kingsguard would not ever surrender Aerys to the rebel side, they would likewise not hand over Jon, who to them is the rightful king, to Ned because because to them Ned is part of the rebel side and would be a enormous violation of their oath to protect the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Ned had been in King's Landing, where Rhaegar's other two young children had already been brutally killed. He was a primary member of the rebellion and Robert's BFF. Absolutely there was no way in hell they were letting him get anywhere near Jon. And even if they were certain he wouldn't hurt the baby (and obviously they couldn't be certain; Lyanna wasn't even certain and he was her brother), they also knew that Ned would never put Jon's rights over Robert's. They were fulfilling the primary mission of defending their king and the secondary mission of ensuring that their king's claim was maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 It might have been just as much about controlling Jon's upbringing as it was about protecting him physically. Ned would never kin slay although we can't be sure the KG knew that. However, Ned did not raise Jon to be a king. He rose Jon as a bastard and continued to protect Robert's regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven in Winter Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Robert would have probably wanted Lyanna and any offspring she had with Rhaegar dead as well. Especially if he learned she went with Rhaegar willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The Kingsguard, sworn to protect the king, are not going to simply hand him over to a man who is not only a rebel, but a trusted friend of the leader of the rebellion and slayer of their prince. Especially not in the wake of Aerys' assassination and the murder of Rhaegar's other children. It's also possible that Lyanna herself did not entirely trust Ned at that time, knowing of Ned's loyalty to Robert. We don't yet have enough information to determine what the state of Ned and Lyanna's relationship was at that stage. We've seen glimpses of what occurred at the TOJ, but large portions of the story are still missing, and probably will remain unknown until Howland Reed shows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingslayer Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 To protect Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 My interpretation is that Rhaegar ordered the three to stay with Lyanna and guard her no matter what, probably using a phrase like "die before you let anyone touch her" and because Aerys wasn't present they were bound by oath to obey the crown prince. So they did what they did because they'd been ordered to, even though it made no sense and they knew it. Because oath. Honor. You know how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 My interpretation is that Rhaegar ordered the three to stay with Lyanna and guard her no matter what, probably using a phrase like "die before you let anyone touch her" and because Aerys wasn't present they were bound by oath to obey the crown prince. So they did what they did because they'd been ordered to, even though it made no sense and they knew it. Because oath. Honor. You know how it is.And for what has to be the dozenth time by now, that fails to explain what they were still doing there when Aegon, Aerys and Rhaegar were dead and the KG KNEW they were dead and that Viserys was unprotected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 ` They were protecting TPtwP on the express orders of Rhaegar Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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