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lokisnow

Bakker XXIII: Priapic Godlings and Whoresome Folks

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I re-read the Judging Eye (my second re-read) today. Whatever we say about Kellhus' and Akka's scepticism directing us away from the immanent presence of Gods in the first trilogy, it is quite clear from the Judging Eye that Akka in the TJE knows full well which Goddess is pushing him on this path- it is Anagke, the Whore of Fate - indeed he thinks she is responsible for his dreams of Ishual and the conversation with Celmomas and Nau-Cayuti.

It's interesting that before this thread I never considered all the comments about the whore of fate to be anything but an expression but you know, you are probably right.

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We don't neccessarily know how wel... Portable, the IF is. It might very well simply be impractical to use it to show any great number of people. (or hard to move around etc.)


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like a nuclear reactor or something in the inchie ship, or something?

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like a nuclear reactor or something in the inchie ship, or something?

It's the holodeck, running some Inchoroi equivalent of that 120 days of Sodom movie, on repeat.

And the batteries in the remote control died 5.000 years ago.

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Inchoroi equivalent of that 120 days of Sodom movie, on repeat.

siligula, the uncut director's cut, obviously the best movie ever.

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Why did Moenghus leave Ishual? I know this answer has been given somewhere by RSB, but a reference or link would be greatly appreciated.

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Why did Moenghus leave Ishual? I know this answer has been given somewhere by RSB, but a reference or link would be greatly appreciated.

Working on the assumption that the story we are given by Kellhus is incorrect? I would assume it has to be. The Dunyain banish him according to Kell, but we have seen that they really have no emotional compunction against killing defectives... so if they really just wanted to stop his corruption, they would likely have killed him. I don't recall what I've seen as to other motives other than what we're given however.

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What was the Dunyain explanation for the dreams that Moe sent if they don't believe in sorcery?


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Working on the assumption that the story we are given by Kellhus is incorrect? I would assume it has to be. The Dunyain banish him according to Kell, but we have seen that they really have no emotional compunction against killing defectives... so if they really just wanted to stop his corruption, they would likely have killed him. I don't recall what I've seen as to other motives other than what we're given however.

do you have a reference for that? I vaguely recollected that he been sent foraging/exploring and vanished, but that could be wrong.

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Moenghus was sent out to kill some Sranc who had found the valley of Ishuäl. Having finished that task, he was not readmitted to the Dunyain, because he was viewed as infected.


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That begs two questions if the story is true:

1. What was the explanation among the Dunyain elders as to how Moe was able to communicate if they supposedly had no knowledge of magic?

2. If simply leaving the immediate environs of Ishuäl is enough to corrupt a Dunyain (at least in the eyes of the Elders) - and I have no doubt this is reasonable, given Kell's reaction to leaving Ishuäl - then have they been exiling various Dunyain throughout their history? I mean, surely this wasn't the first time in 2000 years that Sranc managed to stumble across Ishuäl.

I don't think it's logically inconsistent for them to exile Moe rather than kill him. If they truly view him as corrupted, then it is safer to simply close the gates behind him than to let him back in even just to kill him.

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Moenghus was sent out to kill some Sranc who had found the valley of Ishuäl. Having finished that task, he was not readmitted to the Dunyain, because he was viewed as infected.

So says Kellhus to Cnaiur...

1. What was the explanation among the Dunyain elders as to how Moe was able to communicate if they supposedly had no knowledge of magic?

Rather than debate this, everyone receiving Dreams - everyone Moenghus knew before he left - willingly committed suicide in the Thousand Thousand Halls.

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What did Kellhus think about it before he met Mek?


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We don't neccessarily know how wel... Portable, the IF is. It might very well simply be impractical to use it to show any great number of people. (or hard to move around etc.)

like a nuclear reactor or something in the inchie ship, or something?

Assuming it does what it says on the label, maybe they are worried overusing it will drain the battery like it did with their weapons of light.

After all what they are interested in is their damnation, and whether this has changed. So when they pull off the depopulation, and the world is sealed, I guess the IF would show nothing when they check it. Or it would stop working because Inward and Outward are now distinct.

Hmmm....does depopulation Earwa disenchant the Universe?

It's the holodeck, running some Inchoroi equivalent of that 120 days of Sodom movie, on repeat.

And the batteries in the remote control died 5.000 years ago.

Heheheheh.

"Damn it Aurax, you fucking spooged all over the fucking remote! Well we can't wash it so we're just going have to watch this from now on..."

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So says Kellhus to Cnaiur...

Rather than debate this, everyone receiving Dreams - everyone Moenghus knew before he left - willingly committed suicide in the Thousand Thousand Halls.

again, so says Kellhus to cnaiur.

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A Continuity Error or Something More?



1. Mimara realises Somandutta is a skinspy in Cil-Aujus. Then, she seemingly forgets until Soma has to reveal himself in order to save her from Sranc. She tells Akka at Fatwall and he confronts Soma but fails to kill him.



"Mimara,” a voice calls. “What's the matter, girl?” It's Somandutta, the one man here that she trusts, and only then because he is no man" (Kindle Location 6003, TJE)



"Then something impossible happens. Soma…Somehow before her, when he had stood behind. Somehow catching each raving creature in its instant" (Kindle Location 1448 WLW)

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again, so says Kellhus to cnaiur.

What did Kellhus think about it before he met Mek?

I'm paraphrasing but "all those his Father had polluted" is what Kellhus thinks on those Dunyain who go to kill themselves in response to Moenghus' Dreams.

Kellhus doesn't actually say this to anyone, we have it from his POV.

"Mimara,” a voice calls. “What's the matter, girl?” It's Somandutta, the one man here that she trusts, and only then because he is no man" (Kindle Location 6003, TJE)

I always figured this was commentary on his effeminacy and how he's not behaving towards her as all the other men are.

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I always figured this was commentary on his effeminacy and how he's not behaving towards her as all the other men are.

I had originally interpreted this as Soma secretly being a eunuch, which kind of made some sense given his behavior, but then when he turned out to be a skin-spy it kinda threw that idea out of whack. I'm still not sure what Bakker was going for with that line.

It's interesting that before this thread I never considered all the comments about the whore of fate to be anything but an expression but you know, you are probably right.

The question for me is, why? What does Anagke gain from helping Achamian?

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I'm paraphrasing but "all those his Father had polluted" is what Kellhus thinks on those Dunyain who go to kill themselves in response to Moenghus' Dreams.

Kellhus doesn't actually say this to anyone, we have it from his POV.

I only found it weird that Kellhus hadn't considered the possibility that the dreams were sorcerous since there was no other explanation, or did he?

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