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maiden of tarth

Will Alleras cotton on to fPate

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In the prologue, Pate mentions quite a few times that the White Ravens know him and call him by name.

Now the White Ravens are smarter than the black ravens. Will they realise that fPate isn't Pate and therefore not call out to him. Alleras seems really clued up and seems to notice small details that others miss. Will she notice the change in the white ravens behaviour around fPate and twig on that fPate is an imposter.

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fPate being a Faceless Man (Jaquen maybe), would have studied Pate enough to know his mannerisms. Faceless men don't get caught. The magic literally makes them the person whose face they take. Think of Arya when she got the face of the ugly girl, she got some of her memories.


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fPate being a Faceless Man (Jaquen maybe), would have studied Pate enough to know his mannerisms. Faceless men don't get caught. The magic literally makes them the person whose face they take. Think of Arya when she got the face of the ugly girl, she got some of her memories.

yet (f)Pate identifies himself with the Pig Boy, when the real PAte hated that..

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yet (f)Pate identifies himself with the Pig Boy, when the real PAte hated that..

Indeed he does, however that is only in the introduction to Sam. Additionally I think that Marwyn is the most likely person to have brought the Faceless Man to Old Town in the first place. For the key that the old raven maester had.

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fPate being a Faceless Man (Jaquen maybe), would have studied Pate enough to know his mannerisms. Faceless men don't get caught. The magic literally makes them the person whose face they take. Think of Arya when she got the face of the ugly girl, she got some of her memories.

Arya does get caught while on her first assignment, by the seal. Animals are different than humans.

Indeed he does, however that is only in the introduction to Sam. Additionally I think that Marwyn is the most likely person to have brought the Faceless Man to Old Town in the first place. For the key that the old raven maester had.

That doesn't make sense, Marwyn has the same key.

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I think thats a really good catch op. The Oldtown plotline is 1 I find very hard to even come up with a solid prediction for. So much going on, Euron, Jaqen, Sam, Gilly, the Hightower guy in the tower using magic, Alleras/Sarella, Aemons "the sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler" line... the list go's on.


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I think Alleras will suspect something is off. The white ravens could detect a different person. I think Sam may catch him in vault stealing a book, Death of Dragons. Alleras would help Sam in that situation.





yet (f)Pate identifies himself with the Pig Boy, when the real PAte hated that..




That could be one clue.


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Wow, this is a great catch about the ravens, OP :cheers:



And Jaqen's already slipping with the pig boy comment. Even Sam thinks something's off about him and he just got there


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@Fireeater "That could be one clue." It is the clue. Hope you were being disingenuous


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I think Alleras will suspect something is off. The white ravens could detect a different person. I think Sam may catch him in vault stealing a book, Death of Dragons. Alleras would help.

That could be one clue.

That was my idea too.

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She's definitely perceptive enough.

Also, I don't think the FM are as flawless as some suggest. Arya did have to save one, after all.

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Sarella may be the smartest Sand Snake, but it is fPate / Jaqen who will see through Alleras; not likely to be the other way around unless something more happens.

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@Fireeater "That could be one clue." It is the clue. Hope you were being disingenuous

I meant in terms of Alleras finding out. I think she may, given it is one of those things mentioned in Pate's POV, and Jaqen couldn't be expected to get Pate's entire persona down. I think it will take more than that to make Alleras suspicious, but other small things as well.

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Maybe we should be more careful not to overestimate the Faceless Men.



Yes, they are the most feared assassins in the world. And surely, they are very good assassins. But that might not elevate them to the near-godlike status some people both in-universe and on this board ascribe to them. It's easier to keep a spotless record if you can choose to refuse certain contracts. It's also easier to keep a spotless record if all your operatives can take on the faces of other people and carry no distinguishing identification, because when one of them fails no one can know for sure that it was a Faceless Man. And what we have seen of them in the series was certainly impressive, but not that spectacular. Jaqen, who I assume is a very experienced operative, based on his much more advanced ability of shifting his appearance, killed, for all we know, a few Lannister guards in a castle in which he could move freely - and possibly was incarcerated in King's Landing against his will (although that last one is debatable). Balon was likely killed by a Faceless Man, but he was also apparently the type who walked around rope bridges, alone and during a storm, so he wasn't exactly the most well-protected person in the world.



So yes, I do think it's very much possible for a Faceless Man to slip up and be discovered, especially if his mission is more complex than just "Sneak into castle, kill X, hide yourself and slip out unnoticed".


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Jaqen should know that Alleras is a woman just like he knew Arya is a girl in boy clothes. He can reveal her just as easily.


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Arya does get caught while on her first assignment, by the seal. Animals are different than humans..

Exactly. And the cats always recognised Arya regardless of who she was impersonating. It seems animals can always sense the true person.

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Wow, this is a great catch about the ravens, OP :cheers:

And Jaqen's already slipping with the pig boy comment. Even Sam thinks something's off about him and he just got there

Thank you.

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