Why is Tystane Martell heir of Dorne? on the show?

[Red Tiger]

Because, and this is the key for all this debate:

We are book readers, they are not. We know how things happened; they don't.

Book readers ALWAYS will have something to say about a movie/TV adaptation. Like we do. Unsullied...they don't.

I don't even know if it's that, really. I mean I loved the Blackwater episode, I thought it was brilliantly done, but the Wall episode, besides Ser Alliser suddenly becoming awesome, what did it have that was so great?

The cringeworthy Gilly/Sam scenes?

The Snow-meets-anvil fight?

Ygritte who long overstayed her welcome getting even more attention?

It all felt so...empty, compared to Blackwater

[Ingelheim]

And then he just had to go rub salt in the wound with The Hobbit :crying: :crying:

The Hobbit was actually good. The Desolation of Smaug...Smaug and nothing else.

Well, Evangeline Lilly was hot as fuck, and I really liked the Sauron vs Gandalf (PETER TOTALLY LOST IT THERE, BUT STILL, COOL AS FUCK), but yes, they are a mess.

I don't even know if it's that, really. I mean I loved the Blackwater episode, I thought it was brilliantly done, but the Wall episode, besides Ser Alliser suddenly becoming awesome, what did it have that was so great?

The cringeworthy Gilly/Sam scenes?

The Snow-meets-anvil fight?

Ygritte who long overstayed her welcome getting even more attention?

It all felt so...empty, compared to Blackwater

It had Grenn's epic death. It had a beautiful soundtrack. It had the best fight we've had on the show (Jon vs Styr). It had some really good acting from Kit Harington, and that's not something you can always say.

And, it had a really good ending.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I don't even know if it's that, really. I mean I loved the Blackwater episode, I thought it was brilliantly done, but the Wall episode, besides Ser Alliser suddenly becoming awesome, what did it have that was so great?

The cringeworthy Gilly/Sam scenes?

The Snow-meets-anvil fight?

Ygritte who long overstayed her welcome getting even more attention?

It all felt so...empty, compared to Blackwater

I think that's because the Siege of the Wall didn't lend itself all that well to the format of "One-Battle Episode", unlike the Blackwater, but that's just me. I mean, while "Blackwater" was enhanced by being the whole focus of the episode, "The Watchers on the Wall" could have used some other storylines sprinkled here and there

[Red Tiger]

It had Grenn's epic death. It had a beautiful soundtrack. It had the best fight we've had on the show (Jon vs Styr). It had some really good acting from Kit Harington, and that's not something you can always say.

And, it had a really good ending.

I am a man who gives credit where it's due, I agree with the bolded parts.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I don't even know if it's that, really. I mean I loved the Blackwater episode, I thought it was brilliantly done, but the Wall episode, besides Ser Alliser suddenly becoming awesome, what did it have that was so great?

The cringeworthy Gilly/Sam scenes?

The Snow-meets-anvil fight?

Ygritte who long overstayed her welcome getting even more attention?

It all felt so...empty, compared to Blackwater

It made me wish we had other character's storylines to keep me going. Bran and Co, or something along these lines. Also, in my opinion, the episode lacked a dramatic moment ala Blackwater. And I wasn't sold on the characters, or at least, most of them.

I think that's because the Siege of the Wall didn't lend itself all that well to the format of "One-Battle Episode", unlike the Blackwater, but that's just me. I mean, while "Blackwater" was enhanced by being the whole focus of the episode, "The Watchers on the Wall" could have used some other storylines sprinkled here and there

I agree. Watchers on the Wall seriously needed other characters. Hell, put the Brienne/Hound fight there, give Arya's scenes more spacing. It just made the finale seem crowded. It helped that Blackwater constructed a more tense environment than the Wall.

On the topic of Missandei's sub-plot, that didn't bother me as much. But it made little sense again, to steer focus from Dany and her other characters. I mean, how many scenes did Dany and Jorah shared this year? Two?

[larastone]

Because D&D don't care about the nuances, they only care about making an "entertaining" story and $$$$$$$$

[Ingelheim]

I am a man who gives credit where it's due, I agree with the bolded parts.

You didn't like the soundtrack? HOW DARE YOU? Also, although Jon Snow should have ended up dead the same moment his face touched the anvil, the fight was brilliantly done.

As I said many times, Kit Harington is the only actor on the show who knows how to use a sword. With Sean Bean and Rory McCann following. The rest...nope. And I hate to say this as well, but Nikolaj is quite bad with a sword.

And now more seriously, I can tell you that 4x09, Watchers on the Wall, really gets better on a second view. I can tell you that. If you have one hours left today, watch it again.

[Red Tiger]

You didn't like the soundtrack? HOW DARE YOU? Also, although Jon Snow should have ended up dead the same moment his face touched the anvil, the fight was brilliantly done.

As I said many times, Kit Harington is the only actor on the show who knows how to use a sword. With Sean Bean and Rory McCann following. The rest...nope. And I hate to say this as well, but Nikolaj is quite bad with a sword.

And now more seriously, I can tell you that 4x09, Watchers on the Wall, really gets better on a second view. I can tell you that. If you have one hours left today, watch it again.

First of all, lol

My friend, I did watch it a second time and all I got out of it was that 1 minute of Peter Vaughan was worth 20 of any other actor.

Agreed with you on Blackwater.

The wall felt too... Meh

People died but besides from Grenn and Ygritte who gives a shit?

Pyp was barely in it since season 1, most non book people I know didn't remember who he was. Janos Slynt seemed as if he was purely comic relief. Jon 'learned' the ways of the fockin legend that is Karl, which saved his life, but I can never forgive him for taking Karl's: In his youth, Karl Tanner was decided to undoubtedly be Azor Ahai. At the time, the people of Gin Alley thought the same. If this is true, Jon Snow doomed all of Westeros when he killed Karl at Craster's Keep.

Was he the guy who got framed for rape? I honestly don't remember. Jon killing Karl was indeed a tragedy, cause that rapist prick had more personality than 90% of the wall.

[Ingelheim]

First of all, lol

My friend, I did watch it a second time and all I got out of it was that 1 minute of Peter Vaughan was worth 20 of any other actor.

Doesn't that apply to everything? I mean, 1 minute of Peter is better than 20 minutes of any other actor...on the show. Except, maybe, Charles Dance.

[Red Tiger]

Doesn't that apply to everything? I mean, 1 minute of Peter is better than 20 minutes of any other actor...on the show. Except, maybe, Charles Dance.

Shhhh, don't let Diana Riggs hear you say that

[Game Of Thrones]

Like the Ross scenes?

I agree that things need to be cut like the IB uncles but Arianne is important

Victarion is far more important than Arianne.

[Ingelheim]

Shhhh, don't let Diana Riggs hear you say that

Never been a fan of her.

Don't get me wrong, she's one hell of an actress, and her Olenna is nearly perfect. But I liked Peter far more.

[Caesar Augustus]

Because D&D are destroying the books and replacing it with their own blasphemies.

[TalalOfDorne]

Because her storyline this year is a romance with Trys.

Hands up, who all think that Trys will be a proto-feminist, awakened to the joys of equal primogeniture by his love for Mycella?

I honestly considered the possibility of introducing equal primogeniture to Dorne for the first time, though not from Trystane but the Sand Snakes. Though the Trys thing is interesting (I still prefer Ariannes story though)

[Mrs_Darcy]

Lol at Cersei good qualities. But seriously, why don't people just wait until seeing how the season turns out before saying they messed it up? For all we know Hotah's role could be much changed. I doubt he will just stand around like he does in his POVs. Obviously the show was going to have to make cuts, and Arianne's is good one. And Quentyn's (anyone can release the dragons).

But they do insert changes into the storyline to make Cersei look better. Like the fact, that she had a child with Robert, that died in the cradle instead of getting an abortion or the fact, that she recoginsed in the tv show, that Joffrey was a monster, whereas in the books he was her favourite child.

Or the whole the-gold-mines-are-runnig-dry-invention, that they will use to make Cersei look less bad, when she refuses to pay the Iron Bank next season.

[Mrs_Darcy]

I got it :cheers: After all, filler is certainly the show's strength. :cool4:

The Myrcella thing is something I still don't understand. But the reactions of her previous actress are the best. lol The Sandsnakes are, IMO, a way for HBO to build on Oberyn's popularity.

or show some female nudity. I will be really surprised, if we do not see all Sand Snakes naked in the next season.

[Red Tiger]

But they do insert changes into the storyline to make Cersei look better. Like the fact, that she had a child with Robert, that died in the cradle instead of getting an abortion or the fact, that she recoginsed in the tv show, that Joffrey was a monster, whereas in the books he was her favourite child.

Or the whole the-gold-mines-are-runnig-dry-invention, that they will use to make Cersei look less bad, when she refuses to pay the Iron Bank next season.

To be fair, there are hints that the Lannisters lost a large chunk of their fortune in the books as well.

Kevan mentions that he wishes Littflefinger were in KL and he laments the Iron Throne's debt to the Iron Bank.

[nastydream]

Victarion is far more important than Arianne.

Nope.

[Red Tiger]

Never been a fan of her.

Don't get me wrong, she's one hell of an actress, and her Olenna is nearly perfect. But I liked Peter far more.

Something I forgot, the Battle of the Wall DID do something else that was great, it lead to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TgVhn7VYDMQ#t=237 3:56

[Wmarshal]

To be fair, there are hints that the Lannisters lost a large chunk of their fortune in the books as well.

Kevan mentions that he wishes Littflefinger were in KL and he laments the Iron Throne's debt to the Iron Bank.

No their isn't, Kevan, a man raised in CR and lived there as his brother's right hand, believes there is enough gold there to pay millions worth of debt. D&D pulled this out their ass, it ignores how without money the Lannisters would not have most well trained force or armored.