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willofDorne

High Sparrow = Howland Reed 4.0

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Didn't watch it. Is it just the same arguments from the threads here, or is it any new arguments?

It's a watered down version of the most popular arguments, but what can you expect? It does the job and the idea is gaining followers.

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It's a watered down version of the most popular arguments, but what can you expect? It does the job and the idea is gaining followers.

It got left unmentioned here for 3 months because its supporters couldn't make a persuasive argument. Now it is on youtube. 9/11 truthers have gained a following on youtube too, but that doesn't make their facts any less wrong, or their connections any less erroneous.

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Well, it looks like we've gotten more Howland Reed = High Septon supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOD7O7migDw

Doesn't this make it an official theory??

What are looking for? Do you want people to stop calling HR=HS crackpot? Not gonna happen. What makes a theory official, anyway?

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Arrgh. I was a(n occasional) lurking non-member when this theory first appeared. and thought it died when we got the casting announcement for Jonathan Pryce as the new High Septon. Mind-boggling that it's on the fourth incarnation! I know the show and the books aren't quite the same but Pryce is well into his sixties and looks it. Obviously D&D are under the impression that HS is a much older man than Ned and his contemporaries (mid-forties). I think GRRM would have told them something if it's indeed the case that HR=HS.


Besides that, the theory makes no sense at all. Antler's Fury presented an impressive, detailed, and very compelling rebuttal against it so I won't rehash it. What the High Septon has done does not help the Starks or the North in any way. Cersei is shamed and temporarily out of the action but Tommen is still on the throne, the FM is armed and dangerous (and remember what the first Andals did to the COTF and the weirwoods - the original practitioners and symbols of the old gods), and I highly doubt that anyone in KL has the slightest clue of the imminent threat of the WWs, HS included.



I don't know about this campaign guide thingy but I don't remember any Wells in the North. One of Ned's companions is Theo Wull, not Wells. And Howland Reed was still at Greywater Watch at least until his children set out for WF. I just don't think there's enough time for him to transform himself into a wandering septon of the Riverlands, get to KL with an entourage of Seven fanatics, and be convincing enough to get himself elected as High Septon, never mind the extreme fortune that goes along with all of that. (he could have been killed by any faction of the warring parties on the way.)


Two words for adherents of this theory: dumb, and dumber.

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Well, it looks like we've gotten more Howland Reed = High Septon supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOD7O7migDw

Doesn't this make it an official theory??

Quoting the video: "HS=HR is a moderately crazy theory claiming that the current High Septon is actually Howard Reed"...

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What are looking for? Do you want people to stop calling HR=HS crackpot? Not gonna happen. What makes a theory official, anyway?

Adding it to the compendium of theories on this forum would be a good start. So far, it's one of the theories that has held the most sway with me. Yes, initial reactions, especially in this climate of actual crackpot theories *cough* crackpots everywhere *cough* one might think this is just another crazy theory, it's gaining significant sway.

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Adding it to the compendium of theories on this forum would be a good start. So far, it's one of the theories that has held the most sway with me. Yes, initial reactions, especially in this climate of actual crackpot theories *cough* crackpots everywhere *cough* one might think this is just another crazy theory, it's gaining significant sway.

I've read all four threads on this subject and I'm not swayed at all. I think it is constructed of events and suppositions that are so loosely connected that they don't remotely hold together. I'm sticking with crackpot.

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Well, it looks like we've gotten more Howland Reed = High Septon supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOD7O7migDw

Doesn't this make it an official theory??

It's a watered down version of the most popular arguments, but what can you expect? It does the job and the idea is gaining followers.

I admit that I didn't watch the video until just now. It surprises me that you posted it in an effort to have this theory "officially" recognized. It does present a watered down version. In the FIRST HALF of the video. It then goes on to succinctly lay out many reasons why the theory is reaching and off the mark with the final conclusion that HR =/= HS.

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I don't see this in top, so I'll just put it there.



In CoK, Catelyn 4:





The wealthy septs of the cities had statues of the Seven and an altar to each.




In Winterfell, Septon Chayle hung carved masks from each wall.

Look at...





. The faces of the Seven had been carved into the walls.


Coincedence?



Also, about Q&A:





Q: Howland was confirmed by GRRM to be in his 30's, yet the High Septon has grey hair, a lined face, and is described as an "old man" both by Cersei and in the Appendix of AFoC and ADwD.

Bran 1, GoT:





Bran's father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind. His closely trimmed beard was shot with white, making him look older than his thirty-five years.




Q: How does Howland learn the Faith so quickly?


I can't point where it was written, somewhere in FfC. Septon was talking about concept of 7 faces of 1 god being too difficult for him. Thus meaning, that you don't need to know much about Faith to be a Septon. And yeah HS wasn't chosen for his knowledge of theology.


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I love this theory (and have since I first read it). It's got everything.



A character we're all desperate to see hiding right under our noses.


A character who has better reason than most to exact revenge against the Lannisters doing just that. With style.


Someone finally exacting punishment for Ned's death.


Someone plotting long and hard to become more powerful than the crown, almost effortlessly.



I consider this more believable than the stickied thread.



You want crackpot? Septa Moelle is Theon's mother.



But this is not crackpot. It's brilliant, and just the sort of magic I expect from GRRM.

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I love this theory (and have since I first read it). It's got everything.

A character we're all desperate to see hiding right under our noses.

A character who has better reason than most to exact revenge against the Lannisters doing just that. With style.

Someone finally exacting punishment for Ned's death.

Someone plotting long and hard to become more powerful than the crown, almost effortlessly.

I consider this more believable than the stickied thread.

You want crackpot? Septa Moelle is Theon's mother.

But this is not crackpot. It's brilliant, and just the sort of magic I expect from GRRM.

Septa Moelle being Theon's mom is literally impossible.

This is easily crackpot and more easily dismissed.

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Septa Moelle being Theon's mom is literally impossible.

This is easily crackpot and more easily dismissed.

I said it was crackpot.

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I would say this is utterly ridiculous if it weren't for the well put together and referenced information.



Well done. I don't subscribe to the theory but you certainly have a good argument.


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I said it was crackpot.

Except when you said it wasn't? Septa Moelle = theon's mom is literally impossible given the distance. HR = HS is easily crackpot. You said it wasn't.

You want crackpot? Septa Moelle is Theon's mother.

But this is not crackpot. It's brilliant, and just the sort of magic I expect from GRRM.

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Except when you said it wasn't? Septa Moelle = theon's mom is literally impossible given the distance. HR = HS is easily crackpot. You said it wasn't.

You want crackpot? Septa Moelle is Theon's mother.

But this is not crackpot. It's brilliant, and just the sort of magic I expect from GRRM.

So very sorry you completely misunderstood.

I meant that HS=HR is not, IMO, crackpot. I was giving an example of something that was crackpot.

Cheers.

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So very sorry you completely misunderstood.

I meant that HS=HR is not, IMO, crackpot. I was giving an example of something that was crackpot.

Cheers.

I think you're misunderstanding. You don't think it's crackpot. I think it's so very obviously crackpot that it's not really worth even considering to be non-crackpot. I know you don't consider it crackpot.

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I think you're misunderstanding. You don't think it's crackpot. I think it's so very obviously crackpot that it's not really worth even considering to be non-crackpot. I know you don't consider it crackpot.

I think you completely missed the mark what you were responding to. You took the last part of my post out of context entirely.

Anyway cheers, we aren't on the same page, so.

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I love this theory (and have since I first read it). It's got everything.

A character we're all desperate to see hiding right under our noses.

A character who has better reason than most to exact revenge against the Lannisters doing just that. With style.

Someone finally exacting punishment for Ned's death.

Someone plotting long and hard to become more powerful than the crown, almost effortlessly.

I consider this more believable than the stickied thread.

You want crackpot? Septa Moelle is Theon's mother.

But this is not crackpot. It's brilliant, and just the sort of magic I expect from GRRM.

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Yes and USD responded with only the last two lines, inferring I was saying Septa Moelle Theon was not crackpot and responding to that part specifically.

So, thanks.

Anyway. OK moving on (I hope).

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Yes and USD responded with only the last two lines, inferring I was saying Septa Moelle Theon was not crackpot and responding to that part specifically.

So, thanks.

Anyway. OK moving on (I hope).

No I wasn't. You completely misread what I said. Not really sure how that's possible. But you managed to do it ,multiple times.

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