College Basketball 2015 - 2016: Wherein we forget that last season ever happened

[Mexal]

It is... And I hope it never gets old!

On a UK message board yesterday discussing this class, a discussion popped up about our status during the dark days of the end of Tubby and into Billy Gillispie.  We reminisced on all the talk that UK had become irrelevant to the recruits of today.  Names like Issel, Riley, Macy, Chapman, and even Mashburn were ancient history to kids of today and all the proud tradition we considered to be so wonderful had no bearing on today.  With the current success we have to point no further back than Wall, Cousins, and Bledsoe and the success since.  To legitimately stand at the top of the mountain once again is something we won't take for granted any time soon after that.

I can totally see why you're happy with everything, the success, the recruiting and the NBA success of the players that come through Kentucky. But I'd have somewhat of a hard time claiming success for an 18 year old who played a single season as your school then went on to the NBA to be molded over the past 5 years into a successful player. It's not like his time at Kentucky grew him as a person. He was on a team of other top recruits destined for the NBA the following season. Kentucky is fantastic at recruiting with the promise of becoming a top NBA pick and doing what they can do to get them there. But don't you, as a fan, miss the Mashburns, Walkers, Mercers, Delks? I get if I was in your position, I probably wouldn't because you have constant success, but I personally enjoy watching the growth of those players throughout their collegiate career instead of all the ready-made NBA talent. If they didn't change the college rule, most of those guys would probably enter straight from High School.

[Rhom]

I can totally see why you're happy with everything, the success, the recruiting and the NBA success of the players that come through Kentucky. But I'd have somewhat of a hard time claiming success for an 18 year old who played a single season as your school then went on to the NBA to be molded over the past 5 years into a successful player. It's not like his time at Kentucky grew him as a person. He was on a team of other top recruits destined for the NBA the following season. Kentucky is fantastic at recruiting with the promise of becoming a top NBA pick and doing what they can do to get them there. But don't you, as a fan, miss the Mashburns, Walkers, Mercers, Delks? I get if I was in your position, I probably wouldn't because you have constant success, but I personally enjoy watching the growth of those players throughout their collegiate career instead of all the ready-made NBA talent. If they didn't change the college rule, most of those guys would probably enter straight from High School.

Oh sure.  It's why the biggest cheer at the game I went to last weekend was for junior Derek Willis getting the nod to start.

However, I also have to be careful not to put my expectations on these kids.  If their dream is to play professionally, then it's not my place as a 37 year old couch jockey to naysay them.  (Google Arkansas fans and Malik Monk if you want to see some ridiculousness from yesterday.)

And I wouldn't say Kentucky had no effect.  Karl Anthony Towns was certainly not considered the top overall pick until he was forced to play back to the basket by Cal.  Chad Ford says that KAT earned millions of by coming to Kentucky.

And look at the number of former Cats who come back to participate in alumni events like the UK v UNC charity game a few weeks ago. Or the picture of Devin Booker at the UK Hoops game at Arizona State last weekend.

Cal also doesn't just teach them basketball skills, he has experts in social media management and related areas come in and teach them about how to present themselves.

They are taught to give back to their community as well and you see it in the charity of John Wall or DeMarcus Cousins paying for a young man's funeral last week.  It helps that Cal recruits good kids to begin with though.  When Cal went for a home visit with De'Aaron Fox earlier this year, Fox invited a classmate with special needs who is a huge UK fan over to his house to meet Cal.

If all the players who came through matched the mercenary image many other fan bases and certain media outlets try to paint them as, it would be hard to swallow.  Instead, I try to enjoy them while they are here and cheer for their later success.

It certainly makes me more likely to watch a NBA game as I flip through the channels!!!

[Mexal]

I guess I just see Kentucky these days as a finishing school for elite prospects, which it basically is judging by your post. Nothing wrong with that. It's good for the NBA, it's great for the players and it's good for Kentucky fans given the continued success of the program. I was just wondering if you miss the old days and judging by the reaction to Willis starting, it seems the fans do on some level. Ded's reaction to having yet another #1/2 class, where there seemed to be some worry, is what spurred me on to thinking about this. Figure this topic comes up every few years but it intrigues me from a fan's perspective. 

[Rhom]

I guess I just see Kentucky these days as a finishing school for elite prospects, which it basically is judging by your post. Nothing wrong with that. It's good for the NBA, it's great for the players and it's good for Kentucky fans given the continued success of the program. I was just wondering if you miss the old days and judging by the reaction to Willis starting, it seems the fans do on some level. Ded's reaction to having yet another #1/2 class, where there seemed to be some worry, is what spurred me on to thinking about this. Figure this topic comes up every few years but it intrigues me from a fan's perspective. 

What is college if not a place for elites in society (academically, socially, athletically, or otherwise) to attend and hone the skills that will be used in their professional career?

Sure, we love the story of the kid who works hard for four years and moves on.  But is there also not a place for the math prodigy to attend MIT and then move on to a high paying tech job at a young age?

I'd love all the kids to stay four years selfishly, but I'm also happy that they are achieving their goals in life.  If them reaching their goals puts us in the Final Four more often than not and gives us a real chance at a national title?  All the better for me as a fan.

And if I need to cheer for the scrappy underdog, I still have my alma mater... Murray State!

Actually as I type that, I see the parallels with UK as I think about my desire to see Prohm succeed at ISU, Kennedy at aTm, and even Cronin at Cincinnati.

[Rhom]

I guess I just see Kentucky these days as a finishing school for elite prospects, which it basically is judging by your post. Nothing wrong with that. It's good for the NBA, it's great for the players and it's good for Kentucky fans given the continued success of the program. I was just wondering if you miss the old days and judging by the reaction to Willis starting, it seems the fans do on some level. Ded's reaction to having yet another #1/2 class, where there seemed to be some worry, is what spurred me on to thinking about this. Figure this topic comes up every few years but it intrigues me from a fan's perspective. 

What is college if not a place for elites in society (academically, socially, athletically, or otherwise) to attend and hone the skills that will be used in their professional career?

Sure, we love the story of the kid who works hard for four years and moves on.  But is there also not a place for the math prodigy to attend MIT and then move on to a high paying tech job at a young age?

I'd love all the kids to stay four years selfishly, but I'm also happy that they are achieving their goals in life.  If them reaching their goals puts us in the Final Four more often than not and gives us a real chance at a national title?  All the better for me as a fan.

And if I need to cheer for the scrappy underdog, I still have my alma mater... Murray State!

Actually as I type that, I see the parallels with UK as I think about my desire to see Prohm succeed at ISU, Kennedy at aTm, and even Cronin at Cincinnati.

[Mexal]

What is college if not a place for elites in society (academically, socially, athletically, or otherwise) to attend and hone the skills that will be used in their professional career?

Sure, we love the story of the kid who works hard for four years and moves on.  But is there also not a place for the math prodigy to attend MIT and then move on to a high paying tech job at a young age?

I'd love all the kids to stay four years selfishly, but I'm also happy that they are achieving their goals in life.  If them reaching their goals puts us in the Final Four more often than not and gives us a real chance at a national title?  All the better for me as a fan.

And if I need to cheer for the scrappy underdog, I still have my alma mater... Murray State!

Actually as I type that, I see the parallels with UK as I think about my desire to see Prohm succeed at ISU, Kennedy at aTm, and even Cronin at Cincinnati.

Well, most colleges aren't a place for elites in society to attend and hone their skills. That is reserved for a small few and in college basketball, Kentucky, Duke and UNC tend to be those few nowadays.

Anyway, wasn't criticizing Kentucky. I was more curious how you, as a fan, feel about it and if you missed rooting for the underdogs who grow with the team. As you said, you have Murray State so that fills that void. 

As an aside, I grew up a Kentucky fan. Started following them in the very early 90s and stuck with them until I got to college. There aren't any good NY teams around so I just picked Kentucky.

[Rhom]

Well, most colleges aren't a place for elites in society to attend and hone their skills. That is reserved for a small few and in college basketball, Kentucky, Duke and UNC tend to be those few nowadays.

Anyway, wasn't criticizing Kentucky. I was more curious how you, as a fan, feel about it and if you missed rooting for the underdogs who grow with the team. As you said, you have Murray State so that fills that void. 

I didn't mean to come across as if I took it as offense.  I completely understand the question.  

But if someone has to be the bully on the block, I think I'd rather it be me!

[Rhom]

As to the elite question... I actually adapted that line from a pick me up talk I usually give my anatomy class I teach at the community college after their first test.

A few years ago an ad rep I was meeting with presented some demographics on college education in Kentucky.  Essentially less than 20% of the population has some college.  (Out of those, 90% of them live in the Lexington-Fayette County urban area.)  What I tell my class is that getting a C on the test is considered "average" but by virtue of sitting in class that day, it means they are average amongst an elite 20% in the state.

That was probably over 10 years ago and I'm sure the numbers are different now, but I think my overall point stands.  Far more people in this country don't go to college than do.  That makes those that do elite in my book.

[Rhom]

Lot of good basketball tonight!

I'm watching Utah v Miami while waiting for VCU v Duke.  (I will switch over to UK v Wright State at 8:00 though...)

Murray State is playing at Georgia right now and I'm at least checking in here and there.

[Mexal]

Good game last night. Everything we didn't see from Allen was on display as he scored 30 points on 9-15 shooting. VCU played really well until the end when a foul was called every second against them and they couldn't buy a shot. No real flow at the end. Regardless, liked what I saw out of a number of players (Johnson, Billbury, Hamdy) and think we will be another tournament team. 

Wade has definitely changed the style. Saw a lot of zone and not a ton of full court press. Defense is still frisky but not the same level of intensity as we saw under Smart. Also, their offense is much more drive and dish than 3 or shooting like it has been the past few years. That was great to see.

As for Duke, they are going to be good. Allen is insane and Thornton is going to be a star. Kennard wont shoot poorly forever and Ingram has so much potential. They were bullied by UK but I expect them get better as season rolls on.

[Ramsay B.]

UNC goes down to N.Iowa! Kurt Warner is a happy fellow.

ETA: Have no idea why it has me quoting Rhom. Lots of bugs in this new update.

[Guest]

Speaking of Kentucky, I think I'm going to make it to this game @ UCLA in a few weeks.  Pretty excited though I don't expect it to go too well for the home team!

[Rhom]

ETA: Have no idea why it has me quoting Rhom. Lots of bugs in this new update.

Ha!  I didn't think I had said that... Was really confused.

I will say that I never understood the love for UNC this year.  They weren't that great last year, and they didn't add anyone significant...

Trisk, I'm jealous.  I'd love to see that game in Pauley.

[RedEyedGhost]

Coach Self is pissed, and he finally stopped giving a fuck, and spilled on the entire Diallo situation.

 

Ha!  I didn't think I had said that... Was really confused.

I will say that I never understood the love for UNC this year.  They weren't that great last year, and they didn't add anyone significant...

Trisk, I'm jealous.  I'd love to see that game in Pauley.

Experience is very significant in the college game now though.  That's why they're getting so much love.  It's not like Wisconsin had any significant freshmen players last year.

[Rhom]

Coach Self is pissed, and he finally stopped giving a fuck, and spilled on the entire Diallo situation.

 

Experience is very significant in the college game now though.  That's why they're getting so much love.  It's not like Wisconsin had any significant freshmen players last year.

But Wisconsin was a Final Four team the year before.  UNC was 26-12 last year.

[Rhom]

Georgetown with a half court shot at the buzzer to extend the lead on Duke!

[Rhom]

Duke wins and everyone but Kentucky continues to make Grayson Allen look like the second coming of Jimmer Freddette.  I don't get it.

[Mexal]

Duke wins and everyone but Kentucky continues to make Grayson Allen look like the second coming of Jimmer Freddette.  I don't get it.

He's not missing shots. Was frustrating watching him against VCU.

[Rhom]

I'm in cheering for the Fightin' Mexals of VCU here!

Wisconsin continues to play as if they have decided to shut down the program after getting a Final Four win at long last.  

[Mexal]

VCU is a frustrating team to watch. So good for so long then they just take bad shot after bad shot. Happened Friday against Duke (went 2-12 during a big Duke run) and now again here against Wisconsin (1-11). Loads of potential, just needs to stop fouling (or being called for fouls) and start making some free throws.