Will Sansa be Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken ?

[AllOfTheHours]

I have a feeling people are more concerned with the dawning realization that there will be ZERO justice for the Starks in this series rather than the specter of rape.

Ramsay and Roose are noted rapists in this series. Would it be worse to sanitize them or to portray them accurately as rapists? The identity of the victim is immaterial. Sexual assault is sexual assault. You all seem to have swallowed the bait of Sansa's virginal and innocent portrayal as an indicator that she'll survive the series, hoping that her courtesy might actually be her armor. It has made you tone deaf to the argument that GRRM is making, namely that shitty things happen to innocent people every day in Westeros, and there is no justice. If that's not a brilliant microcosm of the USA of the last 20 years, I don't know what is.

First off, this was technically not a rape scene as it's their wedding night and she did not refuse Ramsey, but even if it was... Why would that have anything to do with the character becoming empowered at some point? If Theon somehow makes a comeback, no one will say the writers cut his dick off just to enable it. He too was almost raped, even before that. Sexist. No, I think this upset has more to do with Sansa's virginity being lost than whatever you're trying to frame it as.

The only people on this thread who have mentioned her virginity are you two, just so you know. And, honestly like Roose Bolton said, her virginity doesn't matter in what is happening/the marriage. Ramsey would have married her if she was a whore, like he literally did with Jeyne. The issue is the rape. Full stop. And the fact that the set up is poorly written. No one who watches GoT expects it to be rape free. The issue is that usually the rapes were meant to further the plot, explore character dynamics/relationships, or to express something about the world of Westeros. This rape scene makes no sense. Sansa is supposed to have all the Vale lords behind her, and instead she ends up in Winterfell getting raped. It's a massive plot hole.

[Dronuspk]

Ah shit, I was wrong and that shocked me.

Oh well.

Edit: To those that are saying it isn't furthering the plot are stupid and angry. Theon was watching, and did you see his reaction? He's going to kill Ramsay in a few episodes (probably with Sansas help). Relax.

[Trickrs]

Ah shit, I was wrong and that shocked me.

Oh well.

Edit: To those that are saying it isn't furthering the plot are stupid and angry. Theon was watching, and did you see his reaction? He's going to kill Ramsay in a few episodes (probably with Sansas help). Relax.

I recalled that fake leak saying that Theon knock off Ramsay and flees with Sansa.

Oh I would love it.

[Darth Pipes]

Sorry, wrong post.

[dielsis]

Edit: To those that are saying it isn't furthering the plot are stupid and angry. Theon was watching, and did you see his reaction? He's going to kill Ramsay in a few episodes (probably with Sansas help). Relax.

They aren't stupid. They're just angry. And rightfully so! They're supposed to be.

[TeethGrinder]

You don't have to separate book and show Sansa. Something has to motivate her. If this was it, well that sucks, but you can completely be invested in the character and still be upset by what is happening. It's not fair. It's truly not fair because Sansa is the "conscience" of the books and the show. It sucks that she has to go through this.

Since when was Westeros fair? What happened Jeyne wasn't fair.

George sold the rights for D&D to do whatever they wanted with the characters. That's just the reality. They could have had her killed off in the first episode if they wanted to do it in their story, these are adaptions of the characters. I got pissed at their portrayal of Stannis for a while but just sort of accepted in the end that it was D&D's character and not the book character.

It's horrible for the character, but horrible things happen to good characters. At least she's alive and able to take revenge.

[Dronuspk]

They aren't stupid. They're just angry. And rightfully so! They're supposed to be.

Eh, a lot of these people are pretty stupid too. Anger just enhances it. I was upset too, but I'm not going to rate it a "1" and call it a horrible show because of it. It'd be worse if she wasn't raped, it's RAMSAY and she's marrying him.

[Fury Burns]

Of course this doesn't count as actual full-fledged rape. She wanted this. (Maybe she didn't picture it would go down that brutal, even though it was very timid compared to the books) but she made the decision to go and marry him. She could have turned away from Winterfell.

Littlefinger said she'd be marrying him. She knew what the Boltons were like. They killed her brother, mother, and destroyed her home. How could she possibly think marrying one of them and obviously consummating that marriage would be anymore pleasant? Like the High Sparrow said. It's like picking a scab or some shit... you're okay with doing it but you know it's going to be nasty. Sansa was okay with marrying and having sex with Ramsey, because she thought (in D&D's stupid world) that it would somehow help her avenge her family, even though I haven't seem much avenging yet. Not to mention the poor girl was a virgin and half of that crying probably came from the whole bleeding and breaking of the hymen.

And yes, fighting back and saying no would have made it worse for her, but It's no where near as bad as Dany's rape, and Craster's wives. They never signed up for that, but Sansa did. As sad as it is, people getting butthurt over some saying this isn't actual rape should probably understand that it has nothing to do with it being okay for "a man to screw a woman without her consent" because that's not okay. It's not up to us to determine if it's rape or not, that's Sansa's choice, since she was the only party affected by it, or rather D&D's choice... She consented the moment she trotted her ass into Winterfell, home of the flayers.

Leave your one sided and rage filled opinions under my comment... thank you.

[AllOfTheHours]

Ah shit, I was wrong and that shocked me.

Oh well.

Edit: To those that are saying it isn't furthering the plot are stupid and angry. Theon was watching, and did you see his reaction? He's going to kill Ramsay in a few episodes (probably with Sansas help). Relax.

I can't speak for other people, but I am upset by the way it doesn't make any sense with the plot we already have in the show. Why have Sansa reveal herself to the Vale lords just for this to happen the next season? If HBO created all the plot holes this season just to have Ramsey rape Sansa to set up Theon killing Ramsey (when he would have wanted to kill him anyway for torturing him)... that would be stupid and ridiculous.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

They aren't stupid. They're just angry. And rightfully so! They're supposed to be.

Exactly! How am I not to feel angry about it? I guess the best thing about it is that Sansa's hair is back to auburn, she's reclaimed her identity as Sansa Stark and she'll kill LF, of that I am sure. I think this was rock-bottom. If anything, now things have to get better. I won't continue watching it, but I'll watch scenes of Sansa becoming Wardeness of the North, if it happens.

[OldGimletEye]

You know, I don't give a flyin fuck that it wasn't allegedly rape under the laws of Westeros or whatever. Even if it's not, because of some technicality, I'm still pretty pissed off right now at Dickhead & Dickwad. They went out of their way to show this cluster fuck, creating a complete Fubar out of the entire story, just so they could have their little precious scene. And it's even more maddening that they've been planning since like season two. Seriously, I'd like to put my foot right up one of their asses, right about now.

[dogprivilege]

You know, I don't give a flyin fuck that it wasn't allegedly rape under the laws of Westeros or whatever. Even if it's not, because of some technicality, I'm still pretty pissed off right now at Dickhead & Dickwad. They went out of their way to show this cluster fuck, creating a complete Fubar out of the entire story, just so they could have their little precious scene. And it's even more maddening that they've been planning since like season two. Seriously, I'd like to put my foot right up one of their asses, right about now.

Seriously. I find it extremely disturbing they've most likely been planning this scene for Sansa since that early on.

Leave your one sided and rage filled opinions under my comment... thank you.

"Leave your one sided comments below :)" as if you didnt just try and invalidate any dissenting opinion one might have with your side of the argument with this comment...lol

[Alayne's Shadow.]

You know, I don't give a flyin fuck that it wasn't allegedly rape under the laws of Westeros or whatever. Even if it's not, because of some technicality, I'm still pretty pissed off right now at Dickhead & Dickwad. They went out of their way to show this cluster fuck, creating a complete Fubar out of the entire story, just so they could have their little precious scene. And it's even more maddening that they've been planning since like season two. Seriously, I'd like to put my foot right up one of their asses, right about now.

I'll help you. Though I blame myself for this. I wasn't forced to watch, I watched it out of my own volition. Sansa was beautiful, which made me cry even more.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Edit: To those that are saying it isn't furthering the plot are stupid and angry. Theon was watching, and did you see his reaction? He's going to kill Ramsay in a few episodes (probably with Sansas help). Relax.

So, following your logic, the fact she was close to the guy who burnt her home and its occupants and whose father betrayed her family wasn't enough, right? She needed to be raped to have some sort of epiphany to realise the Boltons were bad? If LF hadn't sent her there she wouldn't want them all dead? Remember Sansa actually was ready to kill herself if that meant kill Joffrey as well when she considered pushing him from a bridge?

[Guest]

Of course this doesn't count as actual full-fledged rape. She wanted this. (Maybe she didn't picture it would go down that brutal, even though it was very timid compared to the books) but she made the decision to go and marry him. She could have turned away from Winterfell.

Littlefinger said she'd be marrying him. She knew what the Boltons were like. They killed her brother, mother, and destroyed her home. How could she possibly think marrying one of them and obviously consummating that marriage would be anymore pleasant? Like the High Sparrow said. It's like picking a scab or some shit... you're okay with doing it but you know it's going to be nasty. Sansa was okay with marrying and having sex with Ramsey, because she thought (in D&D's stupid world) that it would somehow help her avenge her family, even though I haven't seem much avenging yet. Not to mention the poor girl was a virgin and half of that crying probably came from the whole bleeding and breaking of the hymen.

And yes, fighting back and saying no would have made it worse for her, but It's no where near as bad as Dany's rape, and Craster's wives. They never signed up for that, but Sansa did. As sad as it is, people getting butthurt over some saying this isn't actual rape should probably understand that it has nothing to do with it being okay for "a man to screw a woman without her consent" because that's not okay. It's not up to us to determine if it's rape or not, that's Sansa's choice, since she was the only party affected by it, or rather D&D's choice... She consented the moment she trotted her ass into Winterfell, home of the flayers.

Leave your one sided and rage filled opinions under my comment... thank you.

LOL at the idea that rape has "levels", "full fledged", really? She did not consent. Period. That's a rape, end of story. She agreed to the marriage, under duress. She agreed to be left with the Boltons. She did not agree to that sexual act, period. Her only experience prior to this was with Tyrion, who agreed to give her space to adjust to the idea of having sex with him. It may be that she thought her title would be a shield and protect her long enough to avoid sex, since she thinks Little Finger or Stannis is on their way to save her. But she DID NOT AGREE to have sex. That is a rape, end of story.

[Nihlus]

I have a feeling people are more concerned with the dawning realization that there will be ZERO justice for the Starks in this series rather than the specter of rape.

The Mannis is on his way, since apparently no one in the North can tie their own shoes without him. Show and book.

At least this made me laugh.

Thank you folks, I'll be here all night.

Ah shit, I was wrong and that shocked me.

Oh well.

Edit: To those that are saying it isn't furthering the plot are stupid and angry. Theon was watching, and did you see his reaction? He's going to kill Ramsay in a few episodes (probably with Sansas help). Relax.

Yeah, because Theon didn't already hate the Boltons. And no, Theon isn't going to kill Ramsay. That's Stannis's job.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

LOL at the idea that rape has "levels", "full fledged", really? She did not consent. Period. That's a rape, end of story. She agreed to the marriage, under duress. She agreed to be left with the Boltons. She did not agree to that sexual act, period. Her only experience prior to this was with Tyrion, who agreed to give her space to adjust to the idea of having sex with him. It may be that she thought her title would be a shield and protect her long enough to avoid sex, since she thinks Little Finger or Stannis is on their way to save her. But she DID NOT AGREE to have sex. That is a rape, end of story.

Amem! The fact that we still have to explain what is rape in the 21th century.

[Pashernate Reader]

Of course this doesn't count as actual full-fledged rape. She wanted this.

And yes, fighting back and saying no would have made it worse for her...

:bang:

[Rusalochka]

i was dreading this scene to no end.

i dont even know if i will ever be able to rewatch it ever...

I usually rewatch the episodes throughout the week... maybe 4-5 times. I don't think I can this week. Not even the Spanish dub...

I can't believe it, but right now I am actually watching.... Keeping up with the Kardashians. I just need mindless tv to cool me off right now.

Edit -- with all these people trying to minimize what has happened in tonight's episode...

I loved Jeyne Poole serving as a mirrored Sansa Stark. Jeyne's story was painful to read (and I read the SUMMED UP version... I haven't read the books yet, but now I will). It was done in Black Swan (with natalie portman) and in Le Miserables (Cosette and Eponine). the characters were opposites, each other's parallels. Jeyne was not of noble blood, but was raised just like Sansa. that made Jeyne's story even more tragic, in my opinion. I don't understand why people are saying there would be no outrage has Jeyne been introduced... Jeyne's story is even considered "the most tragic" an that comes up as the first option in a google search.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

I was just about to say similar - really unpleasant play on words, D&D.

I had the same thoughts as well.