If Stannis becomes king, will his reign last?

[Avernus]

Let's say that Stannis does become king and sits on the Iron Throne.

 

I see him making four big changes:

 

1. With the crown in debt and himself taking on more debt during his northern campaign there is a big possibility that he will try to squeeze as much money as possible from the lords of the seven kingdoms to pay off the Iron Bank. The lords will start feeling opressed and that it is not their fault that the crown has a huge debt to pay.

 

2. Stannis will start forcing his new religion upon the seven kingdoms. He will most likely allow  more R'llor red priests and priestesses to roam around and will start shutting down the churges of the faith of the seven. There would be unrest felt within the common people.

 

3. He wants to start shutting down businesses that he does not find respectable such as brothels. Who knows what else he will see as an unworthy business. In the capital alone he would find himself with very few loyal subjects.

 

4. Removing capable governemnet officers such as Varys and Littlefinger would reduce his control over information and finances. I mean there is no other Varys in the seven kingdoms and Baelish must know where every single coin is kept in the capital.

 

Within a few years I envision the Lords and the common people of the seven kingdoms turning on him in a rebellion he can't win with the people of the capital ready to hand him over.

 

Do you agree with some of my points or do you think he could take on the realm and be a worthy ruler?

[TheonGreyjoy]

It would last...For five minutes maximum.

[King17]

His reign would not last long

[Floki of the Ironborn]

I don't think Stannis would force the Red faith on anyone. He's not as much of a fanatic in the books, as opposed to the show.

 

And it's not like he'd go after capable people. He'd go after corrupt people. Varys and Littlefinger between them cause some of the worst amount of instability in the realm. Stannis doesn't like the game, just like Ned, and he'll actively try to destroy it.

I think he's the king that Westeros needs, but not the one it deserves. Westeros needs a strong ruler who will reinstall order come hell or high water, pay off the debt to the Iron Bank, and deal with people as they should be dealt with, be damned their rank or title.

 

You see what he does with common born men like Davos or Richard Horpe. He promotes people based on merit rather than just their name.

 

Of course, what happens to all high-minded idealists is that they get torn down by the people who don't agree with them. So Stannis would probably end up like Caesar if he weren't careful.

[James of the Blackwater]

Unfortunately I do not believe Stannis will sit the throne

[Black Shroud]

Let's say that Stannis does become king and sits on the Iron Throne.

 

I see him making four big changes:

 

1. With the crown in debt and himself taking on more debt during his northern campaign there is a big possibility that he will try to squeeze as much money as possible from the lords of the seven kingdoms to pay off the Iron Bank. The lords will start feeling opressed and that it is not their fault that the crown has a huge debt to pay.

 

2. Stannis will start forcing his new religion upon the seven kingdoms. He will most likely allow  more R'llor red priests and priestesses to roam around and will start shutting down the churges of the faith of the seven. There would be unrest felt within the common people.

 

3. He wants to start shutting down businesses that he does not find respectable such as brothels. Who knows what else he will see as an unworthy business. In the capital alone he would find himself with very few loyal subjects.

 

4. Removing capable governemnet officers such as Varys and Littlefinger would reduce his control over information and finances. I mean there is no other Varys in the seven kingdoms and Baelish must know where every single coin is kept in the capital.

 

Within a few years I envision the Lords and the common people of the seven kingdoms turning on him in a rebellion he can't win with the people of the capital ready to hand him over.

 

Do you agree with some of my points or do you think he could take on the realm and be a worthy ruler?

 

1. They would find a way out after looking at Greece example

2. Well, there were pagans praying to multiple gods, and then there was Holy Inquisition in middle ages, which also enforced a single deity and tended to burn its opponents. So again it could play out similarly.

3. Was done already by the Sparrows, basically

4. Red Priests run a self-sufficient church organization already, they would just come to Westeros en masse and declare it R'hllor's kingdom. I believe they have capable people to manage their church's finances that would come to Stannis' aid. This would also give him a huge political foothold in Essos, and Braavos bankers would choose between postponing debt payments or being burned at stake.

 

So yes it would be absolutely successful  :rolleyes:

[Hoppy Hour]

Nobody loves him.

 

The remaining major Houses dislike him.

 

The smallfolk would never have loved him in the first place, and that's before he started burning their gods.

 

Even if he manages to sit on the Iron Throne, I doubt he will last longer than Joffrey.

[Gibzit]

Varys would probably end any king that is close to bringing stabilty to the realm, so no.

[Max of the Magic Friends]

Let's say that Stannis does become king and sits on the Iron Throne.

 

I see him making four big changes:

 

1. With the crown in debt and himself taking on more debt during his northern campaign there is a big possibility that he will try to squeeze as much money as possible from the lords of the seven kingdoms to pay off the Iron Bank. The lords will start feeling opressed and that it is not their fault that the crown has a huge debt to pay.

 

2. Stannis will start forcing his new religion upon the seven kingdoms. He will most likely allow  more R'llor red priests and priestesses to roam around and will start shutting down the churges of the faith of the seven. There would be unrest felt within the common people.

 

3. He wants to start shutting down businesses that he does not find respectable such as brothels. Who knows what else he will see as an unworthy business. In the capital alone he would find himself with very few loyal subjects.

 

4. Removing capable governemnet officers such as Varys and Littlefinger would reduce his control over information and finances. I mean there is no other Varys in the seven kingdoms and Baelish must know where every single coin is kept in the capital.

 

Within a few years I envision the Lords and the common people of the seven kingdoms turning on him in a rebellion he can't win with the people of the capital ready to hand him over.

 

Do you agree with some of my points or do you think he could take on the realm and be a worthy ruler?

 

1. Most of the debt is due to House Lannister, and if Stannis wins we can assume they won't be in a position to demand any of it. More likely, Stannis would confiscate their wealth and that of the other traitor houses (like the Tyrells) to pay of a good portion of the amount owed to the Iron Bank. It really isn't that urgent, though: the Iron Bank, like a real bank, does not demand that the entire debt be paid all in one go. They would probably have no issue with the crown paying it in increments over time, so long as he makes it clear that he will continue paying (not doing so is the mistake Cersei made).

 

2. No, he wouldn't. A vast majority of Stannis forces throughout the entire series have been "unbelievers," as in worshipers of the Seven or the Old Gods. He has not forced conversion on any of them, nor has he ever expressed interest in doing so. Davos is a fervent believer in the Faith, and yet he remains Stannis' closest friend and servant - clearly having people who don't worship R'hllor under his command doesn't bother him. He might have burned the sept and the godswood at Dragonstone, but that was a one-time, "get a boost from the Red God" affair that he has not repeated since then. Additionally, those idols were his to burn to begin with - unlike the septs and weirwood trees of all his vassals, which he has never touched. This idea that Stannis' victory would be followed by some kind of mass persecution is completely unfounded.

 

3. The only business he has ever been shown to object to are brothels, and those alone. Frankly, shutting them down seems like a net positive, and I hardly think it will spark some mass uprising against him. Some people will be unhappy, but they'll get over it. Besides, the Sparrows have already shut down the brothels in King's Landing, and none of the common people seem to mind.

 

4. Varys and Littlefinger are not capable officers. Varys has used his position as Master of Whisperers to commit treason and murder against his supposed superiors in order to further his own agenda of placing his hand-picked king on the throne. Littlefinger cares about no one but himself, has betrayed and cheated literally every person he has ever worked under, and caused the massive economic collapse in Westeros through embezzlement and manipulation. Executing these two and replacing them with competent servants who are actually loyal would do the realm a world of good, not ill, seeing that they have singlehandedly caused almost every catastrophe that has struck the continent in the past ten years. Seeing that Stannis is meritocratic enough to make a smuggler his Hand, it stands to reason that the positions of high office would go to people that can use them effectively. 

 

Nobody loves him.

 

The remaining major Houses dislike him.

 

The smallfolk would never have loved him in the first place, and that's before he started burning their gods.

 

Even if he manages to sit on the Iron Throne, I doubt he will last longer than Joffrey.

 

The Northern Houses grateful for his help, the fanatical R'hlorr worshipers who think he's a god, his other vassals like Davos and Rolland Storm who would kill and die for him, and the thousands of smallfolk who joined his army for no better reason than because he was doing good work would disagree. People always talk about how no one likes Stannis, but the only people in the series that have expressed that have been corrupt and traitorous nobles like the Tyrells, Lannisters, Littlefinger, and Varys who would suffer grievously for their crimes if he came to power. All of the people that are actually under his command love and respect him to an incredible degree, and are perfectly willing to follow him to Hell and back. They already have, several times.

 

 

I think he's the king that Westeros needs, but not the one it deserves. Westeros needs a strong ruler who will reinstall order come hell or high water, pay off the debt to the Iron Bank, and deal with people as they should be dealt with, be damned their rank or title.

 

You see what he does with common born men like Davos or Richard Horpe. He promotes people based on merit rather than just their name.

 

Agreed.

[John Doe]

Let's say that Stannis does become king and sits on the Iron Throne.

 

I see him making four big changes:

 

1. With the crown in debt and himself taking on more debt during his northern campaign there is a big possibility that he will try to squeeze as much money as possible from the lords of the seven kingdoms to pay off the Iron Bank. The lords will start feeling opressed and that it is not their fault that the crown has a huge debt to pay.

 

2. Stannis will start forcing his new religion upon the seven kingdoms. He will most likely allow  more R'llor red priests and priestesses to roam around and will start shutting down the churges of the faith of the seven. There would be unrest felt within the common people.

 

3. He wants to start shutting down businesses that he does not find respectable such as brothels. Who knows what else he will see as an unworthy business. In the capital alone he would find himself with very few loyal subjects.

 

4. Removing capable governemnet officers such as Varys and Littlefinger would reduce his control over information and finances. I mean there is no other Varys in the seven kingdoms and Baelish must know where every single coin is kept in the capital.

 

Within a few years I envision the Lords and the common people of the seven kingdoms turning on him in a rebellion he can't win with the people of the capital ready to hand him over.

 

Do you agree with some of my points or do you think he could take on the realm and be a worthy ruler?

1. He could use the normal taxes for paying the Iron bank. In one of the Cersei pov chapters it says the crown makes more money than in the last few years, the problem is just that she wanted to build a fleet instead. 

2.  I doubt it. In ADWD we see how he puts R'hollor followers in their place because he sees it cost him support among other religions.

3. Maybe, we'll see how that plays out. But I think that alone would not undermine his reign.

4. This is actually the smartest thing a king can do, and the first thing I would do if I would sit the Iron Throne. Littlefinger is corrupt and put the kingdom in debt, Varys kills government officials and schemes against them. The kingdom would be well rid of both.

[John Doe]

 

1. Most of the debt is due to House Lannister, and if Stannis wins we can assume they won't be in a position to demand any of it. More likely, Stannis would confiscate their wealth and that of the other traitor houses (like the Tyrells) to pay of a good portion of the amount owed to the Iron Bank. It really isn't that urgent, though: the Iron Bank, like a real bank, does not demand that the entire debt be paid all in one go. They would probably have no issue with the crown paying it in increments over time, so long as he makes it clear that he will continue paying (not doing so is the mistake Cersei made).

 

2. No, he wouldn't. A vast majority of Stannis forces throughout the entire series have been "unbelievers," as in worshipers of the Seven or the Old Gods. He has not forced conversion on any of them, nor has he ever expressed interest in doing so. Davos is a fervent believer in the Faith, and yet he remains Stannis' closest friend and servant - clearly having people who don't worship R'hllor under his command doesn't bother him. He might have burned the sept and the godswood at Dragonstone, but that was a one-time, "get a boost from the Red God" affair that he has not repeated since then. Additionally, those idols were his to burn to begin with - unlike the septs and weirwood trees of all his vassals, which he has never touched. This idea that Stannis' victory would be followed by some kind of mass persecution is completely unfounded.

 

3. The only business he has ever been shown to object to are brothels, and those alone. Frankly, shutting them down seems like a net positive, and I hardly think it will spark some mass uprising against him. Some people will be unhappy, but they'll get over it. Besides, the Sparrows have already shut down the brothels in King's Landing, and none of the common people seem to mind.

 

4. Varys and Littlefinger are not capable officers. Varys has used his position as Master of Whisperers to commit treason and murder against his supposed superiors in order to further his own agenda of placing his hand-picked king on the throne. Littlefinger cares about no one but himself, has betrayed and cheated literally every person he has ever worked under, and caused the massive economic collapse in Westeros through embezzlement and manipulation. Executing these two and replacing them with competent servants who are actually loyal would do the realm a world of good, not ill, seeing that they have singlehandedly caused almost every catastrophe that has struck the continent in the past ten years. Seeing that Stannis is meritocratic enough to make a smuggler his Hand, it stands to reason that the positions of high office would go to people that can use them effectively. 

 

 

The Northern Houses grateful for his help, the fanatical R'hlorr worshipers who think he's a god, his other vassals like Davos and Rolland Storm who would kill and die for him, and the thousands of smallfolk who joined his army for no better reason than because he was doing good work would disagree. People always talk about how no one likes Stannis, but the only people in the series that have expressed that have been corrupt and traitorous nobles like the Tyrells, Lannisters, Littlefinger, and Varys who would suffer grievously for their crimes if he came to power. All of the people that are actually under his command love and respect him to an incredible degree, and are perfectly willing to follow him to Hell and back. They already have, several times.

 

 

Agreed.

Good post, I agree.

[Nyrhex]

Let's say that Stannis does become king and sits on the Iron Throne.

 

I see him making four big changes:

 

1. With the crown in debt and himself taking on more debt during his northern campaign there is a big possibility that he will try to squeeze as much money as possible from the lords of the seven kingdoms to pay off the Iron Bank. The lords will start feeling opressed and that it is not their fault that the crown has a huge debt to pay.

 

2. Stannis will start forcing his new religion upon the seven kingdoms. He will most likely allow  more R'llor red priests and priestesses to roam around and will start shutting down the churges of the faith of the seven. There would be unrest felt within the common people.

 

3. He wants to start shutting down businesses that he does not find respectable such as brothels. Who knows what else he will see as an unworthy business. In the capital alone he would find himself with very few loyal subjects.

 

4. Removing capable governemnet officers such as Varys and Littlefinger would reduce his control over information and finances. I mean there is no other Varys in the seven kingdoms and Baelish must know where every single coin is kept in the capital.

 

Within a few years I envision the Lords and the common people of the seven kingdoms turning on him in a rebellion he can't win with the people of the capital ready to hand him over.

 

Do you agree with some of my points or do you think he could take on the realm and be a worthy ruler?

 

1. Of 6 million Gold Dragons of debt, over 4 million are to the Faith and to the Lannisters and the Tyrells. All is now gone. The lands and incomes of said parties is now in the king's control. Stannis could pay back the Iron Bank right away, or work out installments to ease up the periodic expenses. He is on the IT, and has a long winter coming. The Bank is pragmatic and has little reason not to work with him on this. No real need for more taxes on that account. Stannis was short on cash since the start of ACOK. He did not go around to ransak his own lords, and had outright refused to do so even to a lord who had bent the knee to the enemy after the Blackwater, instead he prefered to hand out IOUs and try and hand out early boons for his loyal followers, such as granting Saan the right to privateer, and try and get a few castles from the NW for his knights. Notice that both were not really a loss either, and served a military objective. Without a large fleet to enact a blockade he still wanted to place pressue on the shipping to KL, and giving his knights castles was because he was trying to re-garrison the Wall to face the Others.

 

2. Stannis had not forced his new religion on his own househole, let alone his lords and subjects. A case can be made that he forced the Wildligs, but to be honest that seems like a way to break them mentally from thier former culture. The instant they pass south they start carving faces on trees (not that there should be a lack of those, this is the North...). No one is bothered and there is no religious oppression and burning of trees/executions or whatnot. Like with the smuggler Davos, Stannis is trying to force the realm to recognise that these are not the same people they were before. Davos was a smuggler, but unlike the pardoned lords who came to Stannis after Renly died, Davos's taint had been removed along with his fingers. He is a lord now, and it does not matter what he was before. So too are the Wildlings. The chiefs are petty lords and Val is a princess. They follow the king's laws and keep his peace. For that they enjoy his protection. The Magnar of Thenn is one of those who actually took up the Red Faith. What of it? So have a few of the NW already as well. When you see the dead marching and a speaker for another religion warns a king about it, is the main reason said king went to the Wall to defend it when Northern clans and lords 2 minutes away could not be bothered to send a dozen guys to help, when that speaker pledged to fight that threat, it is very much reasonable for people to want to convert to that religion. 

 

3. He has no brothels on Dragonstone, where the lords and population were Targ die-hards and hated him and his family with a passion. 15 years later they would follow him through fire and ice. Get real, the guy's past performance shows he can handle the backlash from closing brothels. What else would he close? Underground fighting like where Rorge sent Biter to fight? Kitchens who serve human flesh as a bowl of "brown"? Oh my, whatever shall Westeros do without those...

 

4. Capable... They started a massive civil war! Cleaned out the crown's coffers and are agents of foriegn interests if ever there were any to justify the title! Are you honestly saying that there is no one alive who can work the treasuty or the intelligence file aside from those two people? Like, how do you think these gigs work after a generation? Realms fall to ruin because 2 ministers died and there is no one to replace them? Did you play too much CKII and can't find anyone with that intrigue and stewardship stat that you think they are the only one that matter on the planet? Come the fuck on.

 

Within a few years the Pax Stannisa would be in full effect. Stannis becoming king is after he had already defeated all other opposition, the Lannisters and the Tyrells and the Ironborn and Aegon and the Dornish and the High Sparrow and anyone else in his way. By definition he now has a clean start from a position of unquestionable power. All his lords are men who followed him from the start or were appointed by him. His rule would be the same as it has been on Dragonstone for the past 15 years after conquering the place - Complete pacification.

[TimJames]

I have to disagree with three of these points.

First off, while Stannis would want to pay off the debts, there are ways to do this without taxing the masses. I could see Stannis cutting back on all frivolous spending (no more tourneys, no more feasts, etc.), encoraging trade and commerce, and increasing production of cash crops.

Second off, Stannis will not start forcing his new religion upon the masses. He didn't force his followers to convert to the Red Faith during the war, and certainly wouldn't after. At worst, he would allow Red Priests to preach without fear of being targeted by the Faith Millitant. Though more likely, he would simply acknowledge that the Red God is no longer needed and would either abandon the faith himself or legitimize the Seven Worshipping Edric Storm and make him the heir (as Sireen is unmarigable at best, and terminally ill at worst). When Stannis dies, Edric Baratheon gets approved by the clergy and the Red Priests get kicked out of Westeros.

Thirdly, outlawing Brothels is not going to cause a rebellion on its own; at worst it will cause a riot or two. In fact, it would actually make the Faith Millitant more willing to tolerate him (as they would see the discouraging of prostitution as a moral act) It would also being in much needed money for the Crown if he made prostitution punishable by fines or forfeiture of property. Or Stannis could take it in another direction and improve the economy in the long run by opening workhouses and trade schools to teach prostitutes honest professions.

Finally, Varys and Littlefinger are ridiculously corrupt. Removing them from office will make things run much more smoothly.

As for the points not mentioned, there are several other factors that would make Stannis popular. While stern, he is also just and would therefore be respected by the populace. If Stannis decides to bring the Greyjoys under heel again, he will be known as the hero who crushed the savage reavers. Finally, Stannis will be compared to Cersei and Joffery, and will look better by comparison.

[Byfort of Corfe]

I don't see any realistic way that Stannis could possibly win this thing.  He is massively outnumbered and out financed.  He really isn't a very good General, perhaps an okay tactician but certainly no strategist.  He has a very difficult time drawing people to his cause. 

[Boarsbane]

If by some miracle Stannis' numerous enemies were wiped away to clear the way for him to become king then there really wouldn't be anyone left to oppose him so he could reign for a while. Of course the notion of him somehow besting these odds and becoming king is completely ridiculous

[Lord of the Vale]

Is regin would last

[Stag_legion]

The smallfolk don't really dislike stannis, as in other great lords they don't really care who is on top. Its only in comparison to renly who was a celebrity that he's lacking support from the small folk. also lets not forget that his name does occasionally get heard in the capital and antler men did support him. That's all before his northern campaign started.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Let's say that Stannis does become king and sits on the Iron Throne.

 

I see him making four big changes:

 

1. With the crown in debt and himself taking on more debt during his northern campaign there is a big possibility that he will try to squeeze as much money as possible from the lords of the seven kingdoms to pay off the Iron Bank. The lords will start feeling opressed and that it is not their fault that the crown has a huge debt to pay.

 

2. Stannis will start forcing his new religion upon the seven kingdoms. He will most likely allow  more R'llor red priests and priestesses to roam around and will start shutting down the churges of the faith of the seven. There would be unrest felt within the common people.

 

3. He wants to start shutting down businesses that he does not find respectable such as brothels. Who knows what else he will see as an unworthy business. In the capital alone he would find himself with very few loyal subjects.

 

4. Removing capable governemnet officers such as Varys and Littlefinger would reduce his control over information and finances. I mean there is no other Varys in the seven kingdoms and Baelish must know where every single coin is kept in the capital.

 

Within a few years I envision the Lords and the common people of the seven kingdoms turning on him in a rebellion he can't win with the people of the capital ready to hand him over.

 

Do you agree with some of my points or do you think he could take on the realm and be a worthy ruler?

1) Id imagine  he feels  at the very least the debt to the lannisters who he feels murdered robert + jon arryn ,  tried to usurp his rightful  claim with bastards, and almost killed him at blackwater etc is all scrubbed , the debt to the faith is also scrubbed and hes prob a lot  more mean with spending than robert.....all that adds up to westeros doing just fine with a new debt repayment scheme

 

2)Tv stannis might, book stannis doesnt seem to care....worship as you please 

 

3)Id imagine the cash they bring in may persuade him otherwise, if not its not like they are  lynchpin of the economy there......the money will just go elsewhere 

 

4)Varys is actively working to bring it all down and seat a targ and LF is just as dangerous......their loss may be felt but damn keeping them around is far far worse.

[Curled Finger]

Stannis is willing to take the path less travelled.   I don't like Stannis, he's hard and whiny and stiff-necked.   However I love Stannis because he actually can do the right thing.   Davos is magic at rallying support for Stannis, but it is Stannis himself, who won Jon Snow over and brought some sense of ... respect? order? to the NW.   The brothers did as he said while he was in-house.   The NW and the Wildlings, hell, all the north folk, are separatists as view themselves apart from the 7 kingdoms.   He is gaining support there.   I doubt Renly or Joffrey or Dany could gain that group's support.   Criminals support this guy.  He manages to sort useful good from sheer waste.   He doesn't seem to be influenced by anything other than his sense of duty and righteousness at a human, not demigod level. When Davos is released from the cells at Dragonstone Stannis says he will get rid of the small council and clean all King's Landing out. The outcome and aftermath of the battle for Winterfell will be telling.  He's with Asha and Theon and Asha has progressive ideas for the future of the iron Isle.  He's already got a friend in need in the Manderleys and possibly the Umbers.  If Stannis survives and wins we may really have to consider him a contender to sit the Iron Throne.    

[Avernus]

I don't believe for a second that if Stannis wins the Iron Throne everything would be smooth sailing from there.

 

If the Iron Bank is anything like a modern bank they will be unforgiving and demand their back payments with interest. If the crown is not able to pay them then who is to say that they will not start seizing cargo going to the free cities, maybe seizing ships themselves, what if they sent merc armies under their contract to certain islands or mainland villages to claim and remove valuable goods for themselves Repo style.

Westeros would also loose their credit with all other banks in the free cities.

 

Stannis would be under a lot of pressure from the Iron Bank. Imagine big tax hykes and very tight trade regulation. Sure the North would be indebted to Stannis but with winter in full blast Stannis would get no help from them. The riverland's economy is in sambles, more pressure from the crown could push the lords and people over the edge.

 

Even if the Iron Bank works out a new payment plan for Westeros, they payments would be higher and would impose new rules to make sure if this happens again there is collateral.

 

A man like Davos can't be of much help when it comes to finance. And what else happens when Stannis is under a lot of stress? He gets influenced easily by Melissandre.