top generals in ASOIAF

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

1. Randyll Tarly

2. Robert Baratheon

3. Rob Stark

4. Roose bolton

5. Jon Connington.

 

Stannis doesn't make the list sadly. He is more of a good admiral than a good general, all things being equal ( though he is a decent and more than adequate general, he surely isn't the "top.")

I think the fear and respect his name inspired (from such as Tywin Lannister) had more to do with his seemingly insane endurance at siege of Storm's End, and his famously merciless and uncompromising character.

It also could be that Tywin saw him as the only "serious adult" among his adversaries, thinking the 18 year old Robb and 25 year old Renly were just "boys playing at war"

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

I'll say it again for the sake of the new format and book canon...

ROBERT I BARATHEON

[John Doe]

Not sure about the exact order, but it seems about right:

1. Robert/Stannis

2. Stannis/Robert

3. Randyll

4. Robb

5. Tywin

6. Bfish

 

 

[Frey Pie]

Tell that to Imry and Stafford.

am...really? It's impossible to equate Ned with the other two. Even disregarding that Inry and Stafford were incredibly unsuccessful in their endeavours while Ned was the exact opposite

[The Fallen]

Also, Stafford was in his own territory and protected by the Golden Tooth. It's not like he was sent to defeat Robb and end his rebellion.

And, if I recall corrrectly, Imry wasn't tasked with anything other than getting the soldiers on shore.

[Lee-Sensei]

I certainly can. I'm not saying he was as bad as them. All I'm that the idea that Ned was some kind of military genius, because he was given a command is incredibly flawed.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

I certainly can. I'm not saying he was as bad as them. All I'm that the idea that Ned was some kind of military genius, because he was given a command is incredibly flawed.

 

Their camp was well sited atop a low stony ridge that ran from north to south. It was far more orderly than the sprawling encampment on the Mander, though only a quarter as large. When he'd learned of his brother's assault on Storm's End, Renly had split his forces, much as Robb had done at the Twins. His great mass of foot he had left behind at Bitterbridge with his young queen, his wagons, carts, draft animals, and all his cumbersome siege machinery, while Renly himself led his knights and freeriders in a swift dash east.

How like his brother Robert he was, even in that . . . only Robert had always had Eddard Stark to temper his boldness with caution. Ned would surely have prevailed upon Robert to bring up his whole force, to encircle Stannis and besiege the besiegers. That choice Renly had denied himself in his headlong rush to come to grips with his brother. He had outdistanced his supply lines, left food and forage days behind with all his wagons and mules and oxen. He must come to battle soon, or starve.

 

Catelyn makes it fairly obvious here that Robert was the bold general during his and Eddard's wars, but that Ned was the cautious one who kept the bigger pictures in mind. So to me Ned seems like the kind of general who just really understood the fundamentals of war and always stuck to that, instead of the kind of guy who created brilliant and unorthodox maneuvers and what not that could just as easily backfire as they could succeed. Hence why we never hear about him being caught out of position like Robert was at Ashford or like Theon after he took Winterfell because he was too cautious to attempt strategies that bold when he could do far more practical things.

 

He's just a solid general, nothing special IMO. Sticks to what works instead of what might work kind of guy. He and Robert worked together as a team so well because you had Robert's bold plans, and Eddard's cautious nature to figure out how to safely implement them.

[Lee-Sensei]

Catelyns his wife and Ned wasn't always with Robert.

 

Catelyn makes it fairly obvious here that Robert was the bold general during his and Eddard's wars, but that Ned was the cautious one who kept the bigger pictures in mind. So to me Ned seems like the kind of general who just really understood the fundamentals of war and always stuck to that, instead of the kind of guy who created brilliant and unorthodox maneuvers and what not that could just as easily backfire as they could succeed. Hence why we never hear about him being caught out of position like Robert was at Ashford or like Theon after he took Winterfell because he was too cautious to attempt strategies that bold when he could do far more practical things.

 

He's just a solid general, nothing special IMO. Sticks to what works instead of what might work kind of guy. He and Robert worked together as a team so well because you had Robert's bold plans, and Eddard's cautious nature to figure out how to safely implement them.

Catelyn makes it fairly obvious here that Robert was the bold general during his and Eddard's wars, but that Ned was the cautious one who kept the bigger pictures in mind. So to me Ned seems like the kind of general who just really understood the fundamentals of war and always stuck to that, instead of the kind of guy who created brilliant and unorthodox maneuvers and what not that could just as easily backfire as they could succeed. Hence why we never hear about him being caught out of position like Robert was at Ashford or like Theon after he took Winterfell because he was too cautious to attempt strategies that bold when he could do far more practical things.

He's just a solid general, nothing special IMO. Sticks to what works instead of what might work kind of guy. He and Robert worked together as a team so well because you had Robert's bold plans, and Eddard's cautious nature to figure out how to safely implement them.

 

[King of the Narrow Sea]

 

I was agreeing with you that Eddard doesn't deserve to be on a list of the best generals in ASOIAF...

[Wavey Sauce]

Tarly won one major battle and then spent rest of rebellion at storms end, has an amazing 1 win and 0 loss record. guy is a scrub and a piece of shit father

 

Roose Bolton is only good at preserving his own strength, sending others to die , but retreating in decent order

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Tarly won one major battle and then spent rest of rebellion at storms end, has an amazing 1 win and 0 loss record. guy is a scrub and a piece of shit father

 

Roose Bolton is only good at preserving his own strength, sending others to die , but retreating in decent order

Randyll has won a lot more battles than 1

• After Renly is killed he marches on Bitterbridge and defeats the Florents who defected to Stannis
• He leads the center of the Tyrell/Lannister force that defeats Stannis at the Battle of the Blackwater (Tywin led the right flank and Mace the left so Randyll was in overall command)
• He wins the Battle of Duskendale against 3,000 northerners led by Robett Glover and Ser Halman Tallhart
• He seizes Maidenpool from Lord (who had been fighting for Robb and had yet to bend the knee) and later clears the area of outlaws
• When Margaery is arrested Randyll marches on KL and the High Septon gives her over to him. Not really a battle or anything admittedly though as Randyll had to swear a holy oath to give Margaery back when her trial is due which was at least the superficial reason why the High Septon gave up his prisoner, but still the High Septon had his own army and gave up Margaery rather than fighting

There's no denying that he's an asshole though

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Randyll has won a lot more battles than 1

• After Renly is killed he marches on Bitterbridge and defeats the Florents who defected to Stannis
• He leads the center of the Tyrell/Lannister force that defeats Stannis at the Battle of the Blackwater (Tywin led the right flank and Mace the left so Randyll was in overall command)
• He wins the Battle of Duskendale against 3,000 northerners led by Robett Glover and Ser Helman Tallhart
• He seizes Maidenpool from Lord (who had been fighting for Robb and had yet to bend the knee) and later clears the area of outlaws
• When Margaery is arrested Randyll marches on KL and the High Septon gives her over to him. Not really a battle or anything admittedly though as Randyll had to swear a holy oath to give Margaery back when her trial is due which was at least the superficial reason why the High Septon gave up his prisoner, but still the High Septon had his own army and gave up Margaery rather than fighting

There's no denying that he's an asshole though

1. That's not a battle, he arrived there, seized the food and executed those he thought might try to join Stannis, this is no more a battle than the Red Wedding, but the victims of the Red Wedding may have had a chance if they were prepared.
2. That's not how it works just commanding the centre doesn't give overall command. Nor is there a great deal of impressive leadership going on at the Blackwater, all we can see is that they won through surprise and numbers.
3. This isn't exactly much of an accomplishment, those men were sent there to die, they were all infantry, and Randyll should have outnumbered them many times over, yet he still took fairly bad casualties in the battle.
4. Not really a battle, the town has already been sacked thrice, and the lord hasn't been fighting for anyone.
5. See above.
6. No there isn't.

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1. That's not a battle, he arrived there, seized the food and executed those he thought might try to join Stannis, this is no more a battle than the Red Wedding, but the victims of the Red Wedding may have had a chance if they were prepared.

It is still a battle and it still demonstrated some of his command abilities, such as the efficient defeat of his enemies and getting there before Stannis' envoys.

While not impressive it still counts.

1. That's not how it works just commanding the centre doesn't give overall command. Nor is there a great deal of impressive leadership going on at the Blackwater, all we can see is that they won through surprise and numbers.

Of course that is how it works. In Roberts Rebellion there would have been battles that Robert, Ned or Jon didn't have overall command.

He certainly played his part. Kevan would have seen first hand his contribution to both the planning and the battle itself. "Randyll Tarly is the finest soldier in the realm. A poor Hand for peacetime, but with Tywin dead there's no better man to finish this war."

He is certainly deserving of some command credit for his role.

1. This isn't exactly much of an accomplishment, those men were sent there to die, they were all infantry, and Randyll should have outnumbered them many times over, yet he still took fairly bad casualties in the battle.

Neither Glover or Tallhart knew they were being sent to die (have to perhaps question both of their intelligence on this one) though.

 

And I think that you are missing KOTNS' point. He is not saying that all these are fantastic victories, but showing that Tarly has been involved in more than one battle. An easy battle is still a battle.

1. Not really a battle, the town has already been sacked thrice, and the lord hasn't been fighting for anyone.

Still a battle. A very easy one much like Theon capturing Winterfell, Tywin capturing Harrrenhal or Robb capturing the Crag but it still counts.

1. See above.

This one you have. Though it is still evidence of his military leadership, he acted quickly and efficiently and met his objectives.

 

I would not call him the greatest (though he can still win that title) but there is no denying that he is very good. As well as the above mentioned you would have to assume that most regions had smaller battles in the last 20 years that are to unimportant to be mentioned. Randyll may have proved himself in other battles that people like Kevan and Renly are aware of but we the reader are not.

[Wavey Sauce]

1. That's not a battle, he arrived there, seized the food and executed those he thought might try to join Stannis, this is no more a battle than the Red Wedding, but the victims of the Red Wedding may have had a chance if they were prepared.
2. That's not how it works just commanding the centre doesn't give overall command. Nor is there a great deal of impressive leadership going on at the Blackwater, all we can see is that they won through surprise and numbers.
3. This isn't exactly much of an accomplishment, those men were sent there to die, they were all infantry, and Randyll should have outnumbered them many times over, yet he still took fairly bad casualties in the battle.
4. Not really a battle, the town has already been sacked thrice, and the lord hasn't been fighting for anyone.
5. See above.
6. No there isn't.

 

/gamesetmatch

[Lointain]

Tywin and Robb.

Master Strategian and  Master Tactician.

 

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

It is still a battle and it still demonstrated some of his command abilities, such as the efficient defeat of his enemies and getting there before Stannis' envoys.

While not impressive it still counts.

Of course that is how it works. In Roberts Rebellion there would have been battles that Robert, Ned or Jon didn't have overall command.

He certainly played his part. Kevan would have seen first hand his contribution to both the planning and the battle itself. "Randyll Tarly is the finest soldier in the realm. A poor Hand for peacetime, but with Tywin dead there's no better man to finish this war."

He is certainly deserving of some command credit for his role.

Neither Glover or Tallhart knew they were being sent to die (have to perhaps question both of their intelligence on this one) though.

 

And I think that you are missing KOTNS' point. He is not saying that all these are fantastic victories, but showing that Tarly has been involved in more than one battle. An easy battle is still a battle.

Still a battle. A very easy one much like Theon capturing Winterfell, Tywin capturing Harrrenhal or Robb capturing the Crag but it still counts.

This one you have. Though it is still evidence of his military leadership, he acted quickly and efficiently and met his objectives.

 

I would not call him the greatest (though he can still win that title) but there is no denying that he is very good. As well as the above mentioned you would have to assume that most regions had smaller battles in the last 20 years that are to unimportant to be mentioned. Randyll may have proved himself in other battles that people like Kevan and Renly are aware of but we the reader are not.

 

Explain how Bitterbridge counts as a battle, who was the enemy commander? How did they fight? Does Roose killing the squatters at Winterfell also count as a battle?

Randyll had a head start, of course he got there first.

 

The commander of the centre automatically has command of the entire army? Did Kevan command the Lannister host at the Green Fork?

I'm probably a bit scathing of Randyll here, the battle did go on through the night, so I'm sure he and his fellow commanders did do some things of note, but we should be cautious of assigning kudos when so little about a battle is known.

 

More likely we should question whether no one suspecting Roose's betrayal is realistic. (The answer is no.)

I have no problem with people arguing his competence, just that people seem to be taking his not particularly great record and declaring him brilliant. To be fair in terms of battles no one has any particularly great accomplishments during the series, indeed I would argue the only person who has won a battle where the end result was in any doubt is Jaime at Riverrun.

 

I don't think any of those feats were very impressive either, historically taking a major fortification would require a lot of planning, but in the books castles and towns generally seem to fall so easily I don't really give credit to any of those characters for what they did. (And Tywin didn't really take Harrenhal, it was surrendered to him.)

 

Does simply moving an army somewhere hastily indicate military skill? Is Stannis great because he was able to sail an army from Dragonstone to the Wall? This is the sort of thing everyone from a lordly house should know how to do, not worth giving credit for.

 

I don't find Kevan's thoughts that convincing, maybe he was referring to skills as a commander+fighting skills, in which case Randyll may well be number 1, but just as a commander I don't think he has a great deal going for him.

[Slowpoke Martin]

Why do people always seem to over hype Tarly as though hes some sort of military legend?

I'm willing to bet that there's not a single battle he fought in where he didn't out number the enemy.

The guy leads Reach forces, what is the Reach known for in war besides inflated numbers??

 

Rofl did someone actually call Bitterbridge a battle? The infantry of the lords who went over to Stannis were leaderless and had no idea what was happening, Tarly basically went there and started killing men like the coward he is.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

The commander of the centre automatically has command of the entire army? Did Kevan command the Lannister host at the Green Fork?

I'm probably a bit scathing of Randyll here, the battle did go on through the night, so I'm sure he and his fellow commanders did do some things of note, but we should be cautious of assigning kudos when so little about a battle is known.

This is actually one of the ways that we do know that Tarly was probably in overall command of the Tyrell/Lannister forces at the Battle of Blackwater: because Tywin was leading the right flank. Tyrion tells us at the Battle of the Green Fork that Tywin always commands from the rear with the reserves so that he can view the whole battle at once and deploy his forces where they're best needed. Instead he was out on the field commanding the right flank for the whole battle. So he can't have been in overall command himself as that's not how he commands armies.

Which leaves that either Tarly or Mace were in command. If Tywin gave up overall command, which he seemingly did, then I'd expect Tarly to have been the one in command seeing as he's the better soldier than Mace (something which Mace likely knows seeing as he always sends Tarly in first while he brings up the rear to mop up what's left). Plus we know that Tarly was commanding the center instead of commanding the vanguard (Garlan was) like he normally does. So if Tarly wasn't commanding the vanguard, then he got upjumped to a greater position than he usually holds.

Or at best the 3 split the command amongst themselves. But the fact that Tywin was out on the right flanks proves that he wasn't in command himself beyond at least those troops, and that one of the two Reach lords were probably in the actual command. Which fits considering that they had like 60,000 more troops than Tywin did.

But anyways thelittledragonthatcould got my real point which was that Tarly has been in more battles than just the 1 that was being credited to him. Big or small, the batttle doesn't matter so long as he was actually in it. He has a better record than 1-0 which was my point.

[kieran wilkie]

As someone pointed out there are distinctions between a roguish risk taker and a solid block of a commander, so here goes;

takes risks that could pay off or utterly destroy them; 

Robb

Jaime 

Theon 

Robert

Solid commanders who use caution;

Tywin 

Ned 

Stannis 

 

Overall the best I'd say are; 

Robert 

Tywin 

Robb 

for different reasons but all ultimately achieved great things when commanding and pulled of great feats

another noteworthy is Edmure who was good enough. 

On Tarly, well I can't remember everything from the books, need to reread, but I think he gets name dropped as a good commander because well...he is. He might not have seemingly done much in recent but I bet he's got a good track record. 

As for positioning in armies, yes although having the van was a place of particular honour it was really up to the commander where he went. Lead van and be the guy who leads from the front, be in the midguard then you get overall sight, and rearward if you are cautious and want to be ready to get the hell out of there, like Warwick 

 

[1northlad]

Forley Prester seems able enough with his fighting withdrawal from Riverrun.

Also Daven Lannister. 

Two overlooked yet rising stars of the westerlands after the likes of Tywin and Kevan are gone