US Politics -- Where Candidates Fall like Leaves

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I'm actually rather surprised that BLM haven't been protesting Republican candidates more frequently.

[Shryke]

It's hard to tell which of these is the more hyperbolic stretch

Except it's not a stretch cause it's what you actually said. Upon hearing news of a protestor being beaten at a Trump rally and then Trump defending the action, your response was "Well, what else was supposed to happen?"

[TerraPrime]

I'm actually rather surprised that BLM haven't been protesting Republican candidates more frequently.

Heh. Maybe they know a lost cause when they see it?

[Ramsay Gimp]

It's quite hard to not interpret your statements in that way, to be honest. So, how should that Trump/BLM incident have ended in your opinion? Just as it did? Well then, yes, you're an apologist of violence against people exercising their freedom of speech. While opposition to the idea of giving BLM advocates a podium may be understandable (although not my position...), doing so by inciting violence should ruffle your libertarian feathers quite a bit - non-aggression principle, anyone?

It's not "free speech" if it occurs at a private event/venue though. The guy deserved to get thrown out, albeit not roughed up. 

Trump is obviously no saint, but it's hard to feel bad when someone who is clearly looking for trouble ends up finding it. Especially if they represent a movement as toxic and immature as BLM has become

[Ramsay Gimp]

BTW, Shryke and Horza, are you still going to argue that the U.S.'s current anti-ISIS policy is effective and smart? A strategy that, it now appears, has been such a failure that the commanders couldn't even bring themselves to honestly inform the administration of the results?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officials-nbc-news-centcom-may-have-manipulated-isis-intel-n468386

dum dum dum dum dum

[All-for-Joffrey]

It's not "free speech" if it occurs at a private event/venue though. The guy deserved to get thrown out, albeit not roughed up. 

Trump is obviously no saint, but it's hard to feel bad when someone who is clearly looking for trouble ends up finding it. Especially if they represent a movement as toxic and immature as BLM has become

Yes because Trump supporters are the epitome of maturity and non-toxicity. 

[lokisnow]

BTW, Shryke and Horza, are you still going to argue that the U.S.'s current anti-ISIS policy is effective and smart? A strategy that, it now appears, has been such a failure that the commanders couldn't even bring themselves to honestly inform the administration of the results?

 

if it stalls for time long enough for people to lose interest so we can refrain from putting boots on the ground then the strategy was and is a resounding success.

[Ramsay Gimp]

if it stalls for time long enough for people to lose interest so we can refrain from putting boots on the ground then the strategy was and is a resounding success.

Not likely if ISIS keeps pulling off high profile attacks

You can't half ass a war against these people. Either withdraw and let them carve out their caliphate (fine by me), or be willing to get your hands dirty

[Horza]

BTW, Shryke and Horza, are you still going to argue that the U.S.'s current anti-ISIS policy is effective and smart? A strategy that, it now appears, has been such a failure that the commanders couldn't even bring themselves to honestly inform the administration of the results?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officials-nbc-news-centcom-may-have-manipulated-isis-intel-n468386

dum dum dum dum dum

You don't remember us discussing that scandal? I brought it up when the story broke months ago in one of my MENA thread linkdumps and people had plenty to say.

Seeing how you don't explain how the upper levels of CENTCOM trying to paint a pretty picture about the state of the Iraqi army offensive invalidates the Administration's policy, much less makes a case for your own, is there anything else to this than an attempt at point scoring?

[Shryke]

I love this new strategy. Post a link, get a detailed response, declare victory without responding at all.

I guess it saves time having to think before you type.

[Ramsay Gimp]

They have an interesting article about changing demographics as well: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/poll-white-christians-population-216154

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

It's not "free speech" if it occurs at a private event/venue though. The guy deserved to get thrown out, albeit not roughed up. 

Trump is obviously no saint, but it's hard to feel bad when someone who is clearly looking for trouble ends up finding it. Especially if they represent a movement as toxic and immature as BLM has become

Why do people keep getting free speech and the First Amendment mixed up? Free speech is a principle and can be violated by private actors. While nobody is obligated to allow dissenting opinions at a private event, having protestors physically beaten instead of quietly shuffled out by security definitely transgresses.

This metonymy conflating the general principle of free speech and the first amendment to the US constitution seems so pervasive that it's gotten ahold of non US English speakers as well.

[Inigima]

 

Why do people keep getting free speech and the First Amendment mixed up? Free speech is a principle and can be violated by private actors. While nobody is obligated to allow dissenting opinions at a private event, having protestors physically beaten instead of quietly shuffled out by security definitely transgresses.

 

This metonymy conflating the general principle of free speech and the first amendment to the US constitution seems so pervasive that it's gotten ahold of non US English speakers as well.

Nonsense. People keep equating them because it's the only context -- in the U.S. at least -- where it's guaranteed.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Recent poll indicates Clinton is more trusted to handle terrorism than every Republican candidate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/11/23/morning-plum-shock-poll-finds-hillary-clinton-more-trusted-on-terrorism-than-her-gop-rivals/

For the night is dark and full of tear.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

 

Why do people keep getting free speech and the First Amendment mixed up? Free speech is a principle and can be violated by private actors. While nobody is obligated to allow dissenting opinions at a private event, having protestors physically beaten instead of quietly shuffled out by security definitely transgresses.

 

This metonymy conflating the general principle of free speech and the first amendment to the US constitution seems so pervasive that it's gotten ahold of non US English speakers as well.

The principle of "freedom of speech" is typically conceived of as the right to be free from government retaliation or censorship. It has always been intimately tied to restrictions put in place by the government.

What you seem to be alluding to is the broader concept of, well, I'm not sure there's a good single term for it, but it might be considered to be "intellectual freedom," which people sometimes use to mean that people should be able to express extremely controversial opinions without social retaliation. This is pretty similar to the idea of "academic freedom" in universities, which advocates for insulating faculty members from certain professional and social consequences of espousing controversial positions. 

[TrackerNeil]

They have an interesting article about changing demographics as well: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/poll-white-christians-population-216154

I'm not religious, but hallelujah!

[BloodRider]

 

 

[TrackerNeil]

 

Yes, clearly it is the Black Lives Matter movement that has become toxic and is looking for trouble.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/5-shot-black-lives-matter-minneapolis

I wonder when white leaders will be asked if the white community condemns these attacks.

[lokisnow]

They have an interesting article about changing demographics as well: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/poll-white-christians-population-216154

I was coming to post that link! Fun graphs abound for all who check out the article. I didn't read the text beyond the preface as the graphs were self explanatory.

[lokisnow]

Yes, clearly it is the Black Lives Matter movement that has become toxic and is looking for trouble.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/5-shot-black-lives-matter-minneapolis

Counter protestors?! Really?! Now we are calling terrorists counter protestors?!